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Have you ever
been through something
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and you don't know
what just happened,
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but you know it was
important to go through?
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This is that journey for me.
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Misogynist
ranting would be at home
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in the far reaching
Internet subculture
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widely described as
the men's rights movement...
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A toxic distillation of the worst
aspects of American sexism.
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It's a universe of message
boards where men get together
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to express their hatred
towards women.
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Well, 1 thought men
had all of the adv ant ages
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in the world these days?
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That's utter nonsense.
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Men are routinely ground up
in a family court system
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that is misandrist
and biased against them.
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They are the majority
of the homeless.
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They are the majority
of suicides.
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They are majority
of the drug addicted.
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They are the majority
of the unemployed.
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They are majority
of the school drop outs.
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They are the majority
of those in prison...
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How do we know that they're
not the cause of these problems?
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There's a reason that women live
longer, mark, let me tell you.
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It is because we are stronger
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and we are happier at the end
of the day than most men,
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and that is factual
and you know it.
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And when men are married
to women who scream like you
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they just want to die sooner.
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- I'm not screaming.
- When you have...
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A voice for men...
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An online hub
for men's rights actmsts.
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They were founded by a man
named Paul elam.
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It's a website
called “ a voice for men“
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that's run by a man
named Paul elam...
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Which is "male"
spelled backwards,
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but it is his
real name apparently.
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It's a gathering
of women haters.
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This Southern poverty law center
has classified that group
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and men's rights groups
as hate groups.
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He wrote a piece
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declaring the month of October
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to be
"bash a violent bitch" month.
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"I mean, literally to grab
them by the hair,
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and smack their face
against the wall," he wrote.
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Here he is.
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You may be wondering
why I'm sitting in a car
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with notorious men's
rights actmst Paul elam.
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That's a valid question.
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And to answer it,
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I need to start
at the beginning...
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The beginning of how
i became a feminist.
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1 was a quiet kid, preferring
to observe from afar.
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My mom put me in theater classes
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when I was eight years old
to break me out of my shell,
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and I loved it,
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so much to the point
that I decided
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to move to Hollywood
when I was 18 years old
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to become an actress.
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What I wasn't prepared for
was to be pigeonholed
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as the blonde who always died.
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Billy?
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Granted, i had a good scream.
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But the characters I played
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weren't alone
in feeling objectified.
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I was commonly harassed
on the streets,
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hit on by married producers,
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told by photographers
to come back
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when I lost 15 pounds
and got a boob job,
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and a plethora of other
uncomfortable experiences,
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all while still being
a teenager.
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I started to realize
my role in the world
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seemed a little too similar to the
unfortunate roles 1 was audittoning for,
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and it was not how I saw myself
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or the person
that I wanted to be.
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So I quit acting
and bought a video camera
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to tell the stories
i wanted to tell,
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and now I've been making
documentary films since 2008
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when I was 21 years old.
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Most of my work has been about
women's issues and sexuality.
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I've covered a range of topics
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from the phenomenon
of purity balls,
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to reproductive rights,
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single motherhood,
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and lgbt rights.
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After releasing my film in 2012
about marriage equality,
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I was at a loss of what topic
to explore next,
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and that's when two horrific
stories broke the news.
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Two star high school
football players
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in steubenville, Ohio,
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have been found guilty of raping
a West Virginia teenager.
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The video shows the former
steubenville student
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callously joking
about the incident.
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That's like rape.
It is rape.
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- Bro.
- They raped her.
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- Bro.
- They raped her.
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- This is the funniest...
- They raped her.
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Outrage across India
as a 23-year-old woman,
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the victim of one
of the most horrific rapes
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India has ever heard of.
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A 90-minute
horror for a 23-year-old
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medicine student on this bus.
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Gang raped and beaten,
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her friend assaulted
and thrown out of the bus...
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Every day, every woman is
facing violence on the streets.
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People are scared...
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I started to
research this rape culture.
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A website called
a voice for men popped up.
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Paul elam wrote
about how women long
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to live out
their rape fantasies,
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to be taken by a man
she's never spoken to,
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let alone given consent to.
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As 1 read, i was asking myself,
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is this the rape apologist
that I've been hearing about?
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The victim blamer
who perpetuates rape culture?
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I continued to read
a voice for men's website,
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often stopping
around the half-way mark
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in every article,
because I could only read
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so many "bitch,"
"fuck," "feminazi,"
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and "rapetard" words per minute.
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But even still, i kept reading,
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and thinking,
and reading some more.
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I was trying to understand
how these,
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what I perceived to be
women haters,
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could have so many followers.
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So I decided to meet
these mras...
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The ones leading the movement,
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and some of their
followers, too...
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And this begins my journey
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down the rabbit hole.
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This, ladies and gentlemen,
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is an historic moment.
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Never before has there been
a gathering of this magnitude
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to support men's
and boy's issues.
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We have got serious problems.
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I have been working
in this area,
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advocating for the rights of...
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Mra! Go away!
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And here we go.
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What you'll hear
is that we hate women.
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You'll hear that it's a backlash
against women's rights.
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You'll hear that we're regressives
that want women back in the kitchen
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and making sandwiches
and barefoot and pregnant.
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You're just bitter,
you're a loser,
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you're a whiner, you're ugly,
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you're undesirable, you're lazy.
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You're scary,
you must be a racist,
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you must be a misogynist.
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When we do speak out,
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women often don't want
to hear what we have to say,
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and so then we're called names.
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We're called whiners.
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And this is the way people who don't
want men to talk about issues
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try to shut us up.
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Um, we all know that you guys
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are a fascist Nazi front
group of white supremacists,
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no other way to openly organize
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other than calling yourselves
a men's rights group.
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Yeah!
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"We're somehow disempowered
because we're white men."
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Maybe it's just because
you're pathetic.
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We're here to fight
how misogynistic assholes
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think they have the right
to oppress women.
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White men are starting
to feel misplaced
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because women are sharing space.
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It's disgusting,
and just grow the fuck up
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and don't confuse suffrage
with oppression.
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Everyone suffers.
It's universal.
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I am a man and I need feminism.
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We're feminists'.
We're fabulous'.!
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We're here! We're queer!
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And it is crystal clear
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that the problems
for men and boys are real.
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I would like
to turn the microphone
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over to Paul elam
of a voice for men
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for some words.
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Whoo!
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This is a historic day.
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I've never seen
a gathering like this
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out of concern for
the general state of affairs
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for men and boys
in this culture.
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Trying to articulate
the entire platform
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of the men's rights movement
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is kinda like trying
to understand a snow drift
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one snowflake at a time.
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It's a very,
very complicated matter.
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Just consider this,
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that 93% of workplace
fatalities are men.
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Four of five suicides are men.
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Men are dropping out
of higher education
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at very alarming rates.
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We're down to 38% now
of college students are men,
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and it's dropping rapidly.
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Male suicide, male abuse,
male unemployment,
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male homelessness,
male failure in education,
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male health issues.
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You got the paternity
front issue,
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and the wrongful
paternity issue,
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the false allegation issue.
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Men are sentenced
to 63% more prison time
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for the same crime as women.
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They're less likely
to see a doctor.
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00:11:31,817 --> 00:11:34,069
They're less likely
to have health insurance.
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The family court system
truly is biased against men.
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I mean, there's just
no question about it.
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It's really the pro choice
for women only movement,
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because men... they're denying
men any kind of choice
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once a child is conceived.
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Her body, her choice, right?
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Think about men.
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His body, his choice?
Not so much.
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Because the U.S. government
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does not want
to send you to die.
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It would rather send me to die.
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Young men that
are fatltng to launch.
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00:12:02,514 --> 00:12:04,641
They're staying
in their homes of origin
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00:12:04,850 --> 00:12:07,394
far past the time that
we would normally expect them
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00:12:07,603 --> 00:12:09,021
to indmduate and move out
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00:12:09,229 --> 00:12:10,856
and go live their lives.
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00:12:11,064 --> 00:12:12,566
We have video game addiction.
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00:12:12,774 --> 00:12:13,984
We have pornography addiction.
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00:12:14,193 --> 00:12:16,987
We have the abuse of young boys
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00:12:17,196 --> 00:12:19,281
with drugs like ritalin
to manage their behavior.
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00:12:19,489 --> 00:12:20,782
Almost all victims
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00:12:20,991 --> 00:12:23,368
of autism spectrum disorders
are boys.
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00:12:23,577 --> 00:12:25,829
Boys are most likely
to be homeless,
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00:12:26,038 --> 00:12:27,456
most likely to get cancer,
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00:12:27,664 --> 00:12:30,375
most likely to die young
of every major cause,
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00:12:30,584 --> 00:12:32,711
most likely to be arrested,
prosecuted,
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00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:34,463
imprisoned, and even executed
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while being completely innocent.
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It doesn't matter
what their race is.
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00:12:38,717 --> 00:12:40,510
It doesn't matter
what their ethnicity is.
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00:12:40,719 --> 00:12:42,429
It doesn't matter
what their religious
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or non-religious views are.
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It doesn't matter
if they're gay or straight.
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Men and boys are in crisis
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and they need your help
and they need your support
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00:12:52,439 --> 00:12:55,234
because they are
human beings, too,
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and you will not
shame me or anybody here
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into silence about it anymore.
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00:13:05,619 --> 00:13:08,497
But if you start
to talk about those issues
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and address them
in terms of how they affect
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00:13:11,667 --> 00:13:13,377
men and boys as a group,
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people get hostile about it.
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00:13:16,421 --> 00:13:20,133
The idea is that men
have all the rights.
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00:13:20,342 --> 00:13:21,969
They've always had the power.
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But if that's true,
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00:13:24,471 --> 00:13:26,890
why can't men
talk about their problems?
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And that's what really got me
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00:13:28,684 --> 00:13:30,811
interested in this
to begin with.
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[3 ayet shortly after 1 began
filming men's rights actmsts,
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I realized my own views
were being challenged.
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I kept a video diary
throughout filming,
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and I've decided to share
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00:13:48,161 --> 00:13:51,039
some of those diaries with you.
256
00:13:51,248 --> 00:13:54,459
I really do feel like learning
about the men's movement
257
00:13:54,668 --> 00:13:56,295
and their specific issues,
258
00:13:56,503 --> 00:14:00,299
the issues
that they have issue with,
259
00:14:00,507 --> 00:14:03,885
it's hard for me
to completely understand them
260
00:14:04,094 --> 00:14:06,888
and...
261
00:14:07,097 --> 00:14:09,349
Just automatically feel welcome
262
00:14:09,558 --> 00:14:11,244
in that space of talking
about these issues.
263
00:14:11,268 --> 00:14:12,811
Because at least with feminism,
264
00:14:13,020 --> 00:14:14,521
whenever I heard
about the issues
265
00:14:14,730 --> 00:14:16,356
that feminists
were fighting against,
266
00:14:16,565 --> 00:14:19,776
I always felt like I had
something to draw from
267
00:14:19,985 --> 00:14:22,654
in experience
to be on board with that.
268
00:14:22,863 --> 00:14:25,407
And that's always been
why I've been drawn
269
00:14:25,615 --> 00:14:26,700
to the feminist movement,
270
00:14:26,908 --> 00:14:28,660
is because a lot
of what they spoke about
271
00:14:28,869 --> 00:14:30,329
I had personal experiences with.
272
00:14:30,537 --> 00:14:31,747
And with the men's movement,
273
00:14:31,955 --> 00:14:34,207
I have very little
personal experiences
274
00:14:34,416 --> 00:14:35,959
with the issues
that they talk about.
275
00:14:47,137 --> 00:14:51,600
A cab driver who is
drmng a cab 70 hours a week
276
00:14:51,808 --> 00:14:54,353
was not saying,
"i am earning this money
277
00:14:54,561 --> 00:14:56,605
to have power over my wife."
278
00:14:56,813 --> 00:14:58,565
He was earning this money
279
00:14:58,774 --> 00:15:01,068
even though it took power
away from his life.
280
00:15:01,276 --> 00:15:04,654
He was doing that so his child
wouldn't have to drive that cab.
281
00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:10,702
The garbage collector does not
282
00:15:10,911 --> 00:15:12,305
get up at 3:00 or 4:00
in the morning
283
00:15:12,329 --> 00:15:13,580
in rain and sleet and snow
284
00:15:13,789 --> 00:15:16,166
and get out to do the garbage
285
00:15:16,375 --> 00:15:18,335
so he can have more power
over his wife.
286
00:15:18,543 --> 00:15:20,921
That's power he's losing
over his life
287
00:15:21,129 --> 00:15:23,298
in order to make
his contribution,
288
00:15:23,507 --> 00:15:25,842
his sacrifice,
his way of loving.
289
00:15:26,051 --> 00:15:30,180
And this has been translated
into the culture of
290
00:15:30,389 --> 00:15:32,599
"you make more money
than women do,
291
00:15:32,808 --> 00:15:35,894
you must therefore
have more power."
292
00:15:36,103 --> 00:15:37,604
Meet Warren Farrell,
293
00:15:37,813 --> 00:15:38,980
best-selling author
294
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:41,566
and self-styled
social anthropologist,
295
00:15:41,775 --> 00:15:46,947
leading an assault on our
traditional thinking about men.
296
00:15:47,155 --> 00:15:48,490
I asked my
girlfriend at the time
297
00:15:48,698 --> 00:15:50,575
to buy me as a gift,
298
00:15:50,784 --> 00:15:52,504
I think it was for Christmas
or my birthday,
299
00:15:52,661 --> 00:15:55,038
Warren Farrell's book
"the myth of male power,"
300
00:15:55,247 --> 00:15:59,042
which she did, and it just
changed my whole life.
301
00:15:59,251 --> 00:16:04,214
And his premise was while women
are often seen as sex objects,
302
00:16:04,423 --> 00:16:08,218
men are often seen
as success objects.
303
00:16:08,427 --> 00:16:10,512
And this resonated with me.
304
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,474
He wrote this book that
questioned our notions of power,
305
00:16:14,683 --> 00:16:17,102
of who had power
and where it was,
306
00:16:17,310 --> 00:16:19,855
and it questioned
the roles of men,
307
00:16:20,063 --> 00:16:22,441
but not the way feminists
308
00:16:22,649 --> 00:16:25,652
had always questioned
gender roles.
309
00:16:25,861 --> 00:16:28,113
Every society that survived
310
00:16:28,321 --> 00:16:30,407
survived based on its ability
311
00:16:30,615 --> 00:16:33,994
to train its sons
to be disposable...
312
00:16:34,202 --> 00:16:37,038
Disposable in war as warriors,
313
00:16:37,247 --> 00:16:39,499
disposable in work
as firefighters,
314
00:16:39,708 --> 00:16:44,045
as workers on oil rigs
and so on, coal miners,
315
00:16:44,254 --> 00:16:46,715
and indirectly, therefore
disposable as dads.
316
00:17:05,650 --> 00:17:07,527
What happens in men's life
317
00:17:07,736 --> 00:17:09,696
when they're raised
that they're worthless
318
00:17:09,905 --> 00:17:11,156
unless they're a provider,
319
00:17:11,364 --> 00:17:13,074
that they must work
even if they have
320
00:17:13,283 --> 00:17:14,868
to take on
extremely dangerous work,
321
00:17:15,076 --> 00:17:18,246
they must get this done
or they're useless as men?
322
00:17:18,455 --> 00:17:20,832
That is very,
very powerful stuff.
323
00:17:21,082 --> 00:17:23,627
See, feminism did see accurately
324
00:17:23,835 --> 00:17:25,921
that we value male work
325
00:17:26,087 --> 00:17:28,840
more than we value female work.
326
00:17:29,049 --> 00:17:31,927
But there's also the issue
327
00:17:32,135 --> 00:17:34,012
that we value female life
328
00:17:34,221 --> 00:17:35,805
more than we value male life.
329
00:18:03,041 --> 00:18:05,877
Even when that plane
went down in New York City
330
00:18:06,086 --> 00:18:07,504
a few years ago and, you know,
331
00:18:07,712 --> 00:18:09,005
the pilot was a hero
332
00:18:09,214 --> 00:18:11,054
for the way he landed it
and saved everybody...
333
00:18:11,258 --> 00:18:13,802
Word arrived over
the city-wide fire frequency
334
00:18:14,010 --> 00:18:16,346
that a commercial jet liner
was in the water
335
00:18:16,555 --> 00:18:19,349
with 155 people on board.
336
00:18:19,558 --> 00:18:21,351
Then, over the next few minutes,
337
00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:23,895
the doors opened,
life vests were inflated,
338
00:18:24,104 --> 00:18:26,147
and, women and children first,
339
00:18:26,356 --> 00:18:27,983
everyone got off that plane.
340
00:18:28,191 --> 00:18:29,693
They saved all the women first.
341
00:18:29,901 --> 00:18:31,821
That's still... when I went
on a cruise, you know,
342
00:18:32,028 --> 00:18:35,615
there's still women into
the life boats first.
343
00:18:35,824 --> 00:18:37,826
Not because you're a man
344
00:18:38,034 --> 00:18:41,788
so you should be able to swim
halfway across the ocean,
345
00:18:41,997 --> 00:18:44,124
but because you're a man
you're expendable.
346
00:18:46,918 --> 00:18:49,588
We have to look at not just
the glass ceilings,
347
00:18:49,796 --> 00:18:51,256
but also the glass cellars.
348
00:18:51,464 --> 00:18:53,341
And, Paul,
i think as you were saying,
349
00:18:53,550 --> 00:18:55,802
we have to look at men
just not only as human doings,
350
00:18:56,011 --> 00:18:57,387
but also as human beings.
351
00:18:57,596 --> 00:19:00,056
When you survive because
somebody else is willing to die
352
00:19:00,265 --> 00:19:01,808
like in war,
353
00:19:02,017 --> 00:19:04,686
then that...
You're immune to the pain
354
00:19:04,894 --> 00:19:06,229
of the people who are dying
355
00:19:06,438 --> 00:19:08,023
because you have an investment
356
00:19:08,231 --> 00:19:09,566
in their being willing to die.
357
00:19:09,774 --> 00:19:12,777
You say, "1 will build a statue.
358
00:19:12,986 --> 00:19:14,904
I will remember you
in a history book."
359
00:19:15,113 --> 00:19:17,033
But if you look at that
from another perspective,
360
00:19:17,198 --> 00:19:18,742
that building of the statue
361
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:20,177
or remembering you
in a history book
362
00:19:20,201 --> 00:19:23,830
is a bribe to be willing to die
363
00:19:24,039 --> 00:19:25,957
so that I can live.
364
00:19:29,753 --> 00:19:33,840
Both sexes in the
area where they are rejected
365
00:19:34,049 --> 00:19:37,469
tend to turn what rejects them
into an object.
366
00:19:37,677 --> 00:19:40,513
So the area where men...
367
00:19:40,722 --> 00:19:43,850
I'm watching this, um, lecture
368
00:19:44,059 --> 00:19:47,020
that Warren Farrell's
gmng in the '90s.
369
00:19:47,228 --> 00:19:48,605
I see some women in the crowd,
370
00:19:48,813 --> 00:19:50,815
and a lot of them
have their hands folded,
371
00:19:51,024 --> 00:19:54,819
and there is a little bit of...
372
00:19:57,197 --> 00:20:00,200
Uncomfortableness...
373
00:20:00,408 --> 00:20:01,993
By being a woman
374
00:20:02,202 --> 00:20:04,037
in a crowd of people
375
00:20:04,245 --> 00:20:08,458
while the speaker's talking
about how men are oppressed
376
00:20:08,667 --> 00:20:11,586
and women have it so great.
377
00:20:11,795 --> 00:20:17,258
It kinda puts you
on the defensive, as a woman.
378
00:20:17,467 --> 00:20:20,679
And understanding
that I feel that way
379
00:20:20,887 --> 00:20:22,764
makes me wonder
380
00:20:22,931 --> 00:20:27,435
are men having
their arms crossed
381
00:20:27,644 --> 00:20:29,437
listening to a feminist speaker
382
00:20:29,604 --> 00:20:31,189
talk about how men
have all the power
383
00:20:31,398 --> 00:20:33,441
and women are oppressed?
384
00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:37,070
Are men feeling like,
385
00:20:37,278 --> 00:20:39,114
"what are you talking about?
386
00:20:39,322 --> 00:20:43,284
I don't have power,
and we have it pretty shitty
387
00:20:43,493 --> 00:20:45,036
on this side of the grass, too"?
388
00:21:02,679 --> 00:21:04,639
Women hold up half the sky!
389
00:21:04,848 --> 00:21:06,641
Women hold up half the sky!
390
00:21:06,850 --> 00:21:08,810
Women hold up half the sky!
391
00:21:09,018 --> 00:21:10,311
Women hold up half the sky!
392
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,147
Fuck Warren Farrell!
393
00:21:12,355 --> 00:21:13,732
Fuck Warren Farrell!
394
00:21:13,940 --> 00:21:15,442
Fuck Warren Farrell!
395
00:21:15,650 --> 00:21:17,152
Fuck Warren Farrell!
396
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:18,737
Fuck Warren Farrell!
397
00:21:18,945 --> 00:21:20,488
Fuck Warren Farrell!
398
00:21:20,697 --> 00:21:22,073
Fuck Warren Farrell!
399
00:21:22,282 --> 00:21:24,743
In 2012, Dr. Warren Farrell
400
00:21:24,951 --> 00:21:26,745
was speaking on behalf
of men's issues
401
00:21:26,953 --> 00:21:29,914
at the university
of Toronto in Canada.
402
00:21:32,292 --> 00:21:35,962
A feminist group
protested the event.
403
00:21:36,171 --> 00:21:37,547
be fucking
ashamed of yourself.
404
00:21:37,756 --> 00:21:41,342
You're fucking scum.
You are fucking scum.
405
00:21:41,551 --> 00:21:42,886
Fucking rape apologist,
406
00:21:43,094 --> 00:21:46,931
incest-supporting,
woman-hating fucking scum.
407
00:21:51,102 --> 00:21:52,702
You're fucking scum.
Yeah, just another...
408
00:21:57,525 --> 00:21:59,360
You know what, though?
Why would you pay money
409
00:21:59,569 --> 00:22:01,279
to fucking support
a fucking rape apologist
410
00:22:01,488 --> 00:22:02,906
if you weren't fucking one?
411
00:22:03,114 --> 00:22:04,616
I never heard him saying...
412
00:22:04,824 --> 00:22:07,494
Well, it...
Fucking scum!
413
00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:12,373
Who do you serve?
Who do you protect?
414
00:22:12,582 --> 00:22:15,168
Who do you serve?
Who do you protect?
415
00:22:15,376 --> 00:22:17,253
No! Fuck!
They're fucking scum!
416
00:22:17,462 --> 00:22:18,546
Fuck you!
417
00:22:19,964 --> 00:22:21,800
Fuck you!
418
00:22:22,008 --> 00:22:24,302
Get a real fucking job.
419
00:22:24,511 --> 00:22:26,387
Get out of here.
420
00:22:36,231 --> 00:22:38,483
This is what men's
rights look like'.!
421
00:22:38,691 --> 00:22:40,944
This is what
men's rights look like!
422
00:22:41,152 --> 00:22:43,488
This is what men's rights
look like!
423
00:22:43,696 --> 00:22:46,282
This is what
men's rights look like!
424
00:22:46,491 --> 00:22:48,910
This is what men's rights
look like!
425
00:22:49,118 --> 00:22:51,663
This is what
men's rights look like!
426
00:22:51,871 --> 00:22:54,374
This is what men's rights
look like!
427
00:23:23,820 --> 00:23:26,197
- Hi. How are you?
- Warren, I'm Cassie.
428
00:23:26,406 --> 00:23:28,867
You' re Cassie? Oh, for some
reason 1 thought you were a male.
429
00:23:29,075 --> 00:23:31,995
I'm just delighted
that you're a female.
430
00:23:32,203 --> 00:23:33,663
Well, thank you.
431
00:23:33,872 --> 00:23:35,456
Very glad to meet you.
Come on in.
432
00:23:35,665 --> 00:23:37,667
- Thank you.
- Thank you.
433
00:23:37,876 --> 00:23:39,961
But Farrell wasn't
always so attentive to men.
434
00:23:40,169 --> 00:23:44,465
In fact, for years, he focused almost
exclusively on women's issues,
435
00:23:44,674 --> 00:23:46,194
rubbing shoulders
with feminist leaders
436
00:23:46,259 --> 00:23:47,802
like Gloria steinem.
437
00:23:48,011 --> 00:23:50,013
And he's still
a card-carrying member
438
00:23:50,221 --> 00:23:52,974
of the national
organization for women.
439
00:23:53,141 --> 00:23:55,810
I believe that women cannot hear
440
00:23:56,019 --> 00:23:58,021
what men do not say.
441
00:23:58,229 --> 00:24:00,523
And he's got a lot
to say to both men and women
442
00:24:00,732 --> 00:24:02,066
in his provocative new book,
443
00:24:02,275 --> 00:24:04,485
"the myth of male power."
444
00:24:04,694 --> 00:24:06,863
I was making a very significant
445
00:24:07,071 --> 00:24:08,865
amount of money
speaking around the world
446
00:24:09,073 --> 00:24:11,326
on behalf
of women's issues alone.
447
00:24:11,492 --> 00:24:13,536
I went through a period
of forming men's groups.
448
00:24:13,745 --> 00:24:15,371
And then
when I listened to them,
449
00:24:15,580 --> 00:24:17,540
I thought, "well, gee,
this will be really helpful
450
00:24:17,707 --> 00:24:19,751
to present to audiences
so that they can understand
451
00:24:19,959 --> 00:24:21,711
not only women's side,
but men's side, too,
452
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,047
'cause I was really totally
in the feminist's camp.
453
00:24:24,255 --> 00:24:27,342
And immediately I saw
my standing ovations drop.
454
00:24:27,550 --> 00:24:29,278
I started hearing
that there was people saying,
455
00:24:29,302 --> 00:24:32,555
"don't invite him there
to speak with us."
456
00:24:32,764 --> 00:24:34,223
And pretty soon I had, you know,
457
00:24:34,432 --> 00:24:37,393
very few college and university
speaking engagements.
458
00:24:37,602 --> 00:24:39,854
How did you originally
get involved with feminism?
459
00:24:40,063 --> 00:24:41,564
Where did that all begin?
460
00:24:41,773 --> 00:24:43,191
I was doing my doctorate
461
00:24:43,399 --> 00:24:47,570
at political science at nyu
in the late '60s,
462
00:24:47,779 --> 00:24:49,614
and the women's
movement surfaced.
463
00:24:59,999 --> 00:25:02,168
And I started to say,
464
00:25:02,377 --> 00:25:05,004
"this is the most exciting
thing I've ever heard."
465
00:25:05,213 --> 00:25:07,757
Because I'd heard
of cml rights, gay rights,
466
00:25:07,966 --> 00:25:09,759
but suddenly women were saying,
467
00:25:09,968 --> 00:25:11,761
"i don't wanna be confined
to just being
468
00:25:11,970 --> 00:25:13,554
a homemaker, a secretary."
469
00:25:13,763 --> 00:25:16,057
So it's like, "why shouldn't
women be encouraged
470
00:25:16,265 --> 00:25:17,892
to do everything
they possibly can do?"
471
00:25:18,101 --> 00:25:19,268
And at that point in time,
472
00:25:19,477 --> 00:25:21,980
I saw a lot of women
marrying men
473
00:25:22,188 --> 00:25:24,273
that they weren't
completely in love with,
474
00:25:24,482 --> 00:25:27,777
but the man earned
a fair amount.
475
00:25:27,986 --> 00:25:30,405
So I thought, that's just
a form of prostitution
476
00:25:30,613 --> 00:25:31,948
extended over a lifetime.
477
00:25:32,156 --> 00:25:33,992
How depressed
that must make a woman.
478
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:35,761
And it's not gonna
be good for a man either.
479
00:25:35,785 --> 00:25:37,912
He never knows whether
he's loved for who he is
480
00:25:38,121 --> 00:25:39,288
or loved for what he has.
481
00:25:39,497 --> 00:25:41,958
And he's afraid
to give up producing
482
00:25:42,166 --> 00:25:44,002
because he's afraid
to lose love.
483
00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:46,045
And so women
who were successful to me
484
00:25:46,254 --> 00:25:47,774
appeared to be women
who would free men
485
00:25:47,922 --> 00:25:49,465
from having to be all, you know,
486
00:25:49,674 --> 00:25:51,968
wrapped up in just
being the only bread winner,
487
00:25:52,176 --> 00:25:54,887
and supporting one, two,
three, four, five people.
488
00:25:55,096 --> 00:25:57,098
It's one thing
to support yourself.
489
00:25:57,306 --> 00:25:59,058
When you're supporting
five people,
490
00:25:59,267 --> 00:26:01,310
you don't have the freedom
to question your boss,
491
00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:03,980
because you're
supporting five people.
492
00:26:07,525 --> 00:26:09,068
The first issue of feminism
493
00:26:09,277 --> 00:26:12,488
was to say,
"just because I'm a woman,
494
00:26:12,697 --> 00:26:15,616
maybe I don't wanna spend
my life raising children."
495
00:26:15,825 --> 00:26:19,078
You know, "don't force me into
that role against my will."
496
00:26:19,287 --> 00:26:20,621
So they looked at men and said,
497
00:26:20,830 --> 00:26:21,932
"well, you're not forced
to raise children.
498
00:26:21,956 --> 00:26:23,374
You don't have any issue.
499
00:26:23,583 --> 00:26:25,019
But for men,
the traditional sex role
500
00:26:25,043 --> 00:26:26,252
was not raising children.
501
00:26:26,461 --> 00:26:27,795
For us, the traditional sex role
502
00:26:28,004 --> 00:26:30,048
was to be a provider,
a protector,
503
00:26:30,256 --> 00:26:33,051
and to initiate relationships.
504
00:26:33,259 --> 00:26:35,303
Each of us
has traditional sex roles.
505
00:26:35,511 --> 00:26:37,388
Don't force us to carry out
506
00:26:37,597 --> 00:26:40,600
those traditional sex roles.
507
00:26:40,808 --> 00:26:44,270
We have the same rules
set up for men
508
00:26:44,479 --> 00:26:46,647
that they've always lived by,
509
00:26:46,856 --> 00:26:49,692
that you need to protect
and provide at any cost.
510
00:26:49,901 --> 00:26:53,821
But we've changed everything
where it concerns women.
511
00:26:54,030 --> 00:26:55,448
They now have access
512
00:26:55,656 --> 00:26:58,701
to everything men
have always had access to...
513
00:26:58,910 --> 00:27:03,289
To education, to work,
to whatever they want to do,
514
00:27:03,498 --> 00:27:07,460
but they're not the ones
drmng the semis
515
00:27:07,668 --> 00:27:10,880
and they're not the ones
in the coal mines.
516
00:27:11,089 --> 00:27:13,508
You don't hear the national
organization for women
517
00:27:13,716 --> 00:27:17,887
complaining that there is just
not enough female ditch diggers.
518
00:27:18,096 --> 00:27:20,807
It is still men
carrying the lion's share
519
00:27:21,015 --> 00:27:25,311
for what it takes to operate
and maintain this society,
520
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,563
and it is still the expectation
521
00:27:27,772 --> 00:27:29,612
that if somebody's
gonna go down with the ship,
522
00:27:29,774 --> 00:27:31,442
it's gonna be men.
523
00:27:38,908 --> 00:27:42,703
Flexibility in roles is where
we should be all headed.
524
00:27:42,912 --> 00:27:45,790
Any men's rights actmsts
that I would support
525
00:27:45,998 --> 00:27:48,417
would support the portions
of the women's movement
526
00:27:48,626 --> 00:27:51,587
that is encouraging women
527
00:27:51,796 --> 00:27:54,257
to have more
flexibility in roles.
528
00:27:54,465 --> 00:27:56,759
So where do the men's movement
529
00:27:56,968 --> 00:27:59,345
and feminism disagree?
530
00:27:59,554 --> 00:28:02,431
Well, only on
the fundamental belief
531
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,226
that the women's movement
532
00:28:05,434 --> 00:28:07,979
says men are the oppressors,
533
00:28:08,187 --> 00:28:11,941
that they... we are involved
in a patriarchal world
534
00:28:12,150 --> 00:28:17,363
in which men invented
the rules to benefit men
535
00:28:17,572 --> 00:28:19,949
at the expense of women.
536
00:28:20,158 --> 00:28:23,035
But don't we
live in a patriarchy,
537
00:28:23,244 --> 00:28:26,330
when most of the world's nations
538
00:28:26,539 --> 00:28:29,500
still have never had
a female leader...
539
00:28:40,011 --> 00:28:42,388
And less than 5°/o of CEOs
540
00:28:42,597 --> 00:28:45,641
of fortune 500 companies
are women?
541
00:28:49,103 --> 00:28:52,148
You have to look at this
in a larger perspective.
542
00:28:52,356 --> 00:28:55,776
Patriarchy is the result
of gender roles
543
00:28:55,985 --> 00:28:57,862
and not the vice versa.
544
00:29:02,325 --> 00:29:05,578
Traditionally, women's
power and responsibility
545
00:29:05,786 --> 00:29:07,580
has been in
the reproductive sphere,
546
00:29:07,788 --> 00:29:09,415
while men's power
and responsibility
547
00:29:09,624 --> 00:29:11,959
was in the productive sphere.
548
00:29:12,168 --> 00:29:14,587
You know, you have to reproduce
to continue the species,
549
00:29:14,795 --> 00:29:16,881
and you have to produce
to feed people
550
00:29:17,089 --> 00:29:18,507
so that they can reproduce.
551
00:29:18,716 --> 00:29:20,426
So, you know,
it's like they work together.
552
00:29:29,977 --> 00:29:32,521
And most
cultures diwied up roles
553
00:29:32,730 --> 00:29:35,149
because women were responsible
for childbirth
554
00:29:35,358 --> 00:29:37,276
and were more likely
to breastfeed.
555
00:29:37,485 --> 00:29:38,861
They're not more likely to...
556
00:29:39,070 --> 00:29:40,905
They did the breastfeeding.
557
00:29:41,113 --> 00:29:44,158
They tended to be involved
in the role of raising children.
558
00:29:44,367 --> 00:29:47,370
Men tended to be involved
in the role of raising money
559
00:29:47,578 --> 00:29:49,622
or making a killing
of the animals
560
00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:51,582
or making a killing
in wall street.
561
00:29:51,832 --> 00:29:55,253
But those were our obligations.
562
00:29:55,461 --> 00:29:57,421
So that's why industry
was male dominated
563
00:29:57,630 --> 00:29:59,048
and government
was male dominated,
564
00:29:59,257 --> 00:30:00,925
'cause that was our job.
565
00:30:01,133 --> 00:30:03,135
So what we call patriarchy
566
00:30:03,344 --> 00:30:07,181
is men gmng in
to the expected roles
567
00:30:07,390 --> 00:30:08,790
that they're supposed
to give in to,
568
00:30:08,849 --> 00:30:10,489
and many of those roles
are very harmful...
569
00:30:10,685 --> 00:30:14,230
Working exceptionally
long hours, difficult hours,
570
00:30:14,438 --> 00:30:17,066
dangerous jobs,
getting killed on a job...
571
00:30:17,275 --> 00:30:20,361
Even politics a lot of people
describe as masochism.
572
00:30:22,446 --> 00:30:26,284
Imagine what it takes to be
a successful politician.
573
00:30:26,492 --> 00:30:29,495
Imagine how much of your
personal life that you give up,
574
00:30:29,704 --> 00:30:33,291
how much you work, how much
privacy that you sacrifice,
575
00:30:33,541 --> 00:30:35,876
how much freedom
in your day to day life
576
00:30:36,085 --> 00:30:37,503
that goes out the window.
577
00:30:37,712 --> 00:30:39,714
There are more men
willing to do those things
578
00:30:39,922 --> 00:30:41,716
than there are women.
579
00:30:41,882 --> 00:30:44,593
Oh, I think we got a pen
for everybody.
580
00:30:44,802 --> 00:30:47,513
But also, just
because men are the ones,
581
00:30:47,722 --> 00:30:50,891
for instance,
writing the laws in general,
582
00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:54,145
doesn't mean that the laws
are protecting men.
583
00:30:54,353 --> 00:30:56,397
You hear about
patriarchy, right?
584
00:30:56,605 --> 00:30:58,083
All the evils of the world
is from patriarchy.
585
00:30:58,107 --> 00:31:01,319
But we're the ones dying,
you know?
586
00:31:01,527 --> 00:31:03,112
And we die for you guys,
you know?
587
00:31:03,321 --> 00:31:06,324
To protect our families,
our friends.
588
00:31:06,532 --> 00:31:09,118
In every society
that's ever existed,
589
00:31:09,327 --> 00:31:12,663
women have had prmlege
and protection that men did not.
590
00:31:12,872 --> 00:31:17,335
For example, we never hear
about how men were excluded
591
00:31:17,543 --> 00:31:20,629
from the forced labor
convention of 1930.
592
00:31:20,838 --> 00:31:22,923
For years,
the forced labor convention
593
00:31:23,132 --> 00:31:26,510
was an international treaty
that banned slavery,
594
00:31:26,719 --> 00:31:28,012
enforced servitude,
595
00:31:28,220 --> 00:31:29,347
but it made an exception
596
00:31:29,555 --> 00:31:33,100
for able-bodied males
ages 18 to 45.
597
00:31:34,852 --> 00:31:37,355
Eventually,
they got rid of that,
598
00:31:37,563 --> 00:31:39,357
but there was still an exemption
599
00:31:39,565 --> 00:31:44,236
for prisoners and military,
which is 90°/o male.
600
00:31:44,445 --> 00:31:48,949
Stop pretending
that you're oppressed
601
00:31:49,158 --> 00:31:51,744
and men are your oppressors.
602
00:31:51,911 --> 00:31:54,372
It's a lie,
and it's a hurtful lie,
603
00:31:54,580 --> 00:31:56,916
and it's a hateful lie,
and it's wrong.
604
00:32:15,768 --> 00:32:18,396
You talk a lot
about the red pill
605
00:32:18,604 --> 00:32:20,856
in a voice for men.
What is the red pill?
606
00:32:21,065 --> 00:32:23,317
Oh, it's sort of
a cultural slogan.
607
00:32:23,526 --> 00:32:26,237
It comes from the movie
"the matrix"
608
00:32:26,445 --> 00:32:29,198
where the character Neo
is given the choice
609
00:32:29,407 --> 00:32:31,200
between a red pill
and a blue pill.
610
00:32:31,409 --> 00:32:35,621
You take the red pill,
you stay in wonderland
611
00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:38,416
and I show you how deep
the rabbit hole goes.
612
00:32:38,666 --> 00:32:42,211
And if he swallows the red pill,
613
00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:45,131
the scales will be peeled back
from his eyes.
614
00:32:45,297 --> 00:32:49,135
He will see everything
that he hasn't been able to see.
615
00:32:49,343 --> 00:32:51,887
And if he takes the blue pill,
he'll just go back to sleep
616
00:32:52,096 --> 00:32:54,223
and live in his sort of unaware,
617
00:32:54,432 --> 00:32:56,600
semi-comatose state forever,
618
00:32:56,809 --> 00:32:58,894
and probably be a lot happier.
619
00:32:59,103 --> 00:33:00,771
It's a pretty apt analogy.
620
00:33:00,980 --> 00:33:04,525
So what is the blue pill
in this world?
621
00:33:04,733 --> 00:33:08,237
Well, the blue is the paradigm
that most people live by,
622
00:33:08,446 --> 00:33:10,030
that men have all the power,
623
00:33:10,239 --> 00:33:12,241
that they've always
had all the power,
624
00:33:12,450 --> 00:33:15,035
that domestic violence
is a problem
625
00:33:15,244 --> 00:33:17,663
that's committed by men
against women only,
626
00:33:17,872 --> 00:33:19,392
that sexual assaults
are only committed
627
00:33:19,582 --> 00:33:21,667
by men against women,
628
00:33:21,876 --> 00:33:23,461
that women
don't make the same money
629
00:33:23,669 --> 00:33:26,088
for the same work as men.
630
00:33:26,297 --> 00:33:28,507
"Teach men not to rape.
Only men can stop rape.
631
00:33:28,674 --> 00:33:30,259
Men commit domestic violence.
632
00:33:30,468 --> 00:33:32,303
We need to stop
violence against women... "
633
00:33:32,511 --> 00:33:35,264
instead of just
stopping violence.
634
00:33:35,473 --> 00:33:37,183
That is feminist training.
635
00:33:40,478 --> 00:33:44,482
The mras...
636
00:33:44,690 --> 00:33:46,942
Say that we live
in a blue-pill world
637
00:33:47,151 --> 00:33:49,737
where women are victims,
men are perpetrators,
638
00:33:49,945 --> 00:33:51,864
and it's all a lie
639
00:33:52,031 --> 00:33:54,909
and that we're brainwashed
to believe this,
640
00:33:55,117 --> 00:33:56,285
and that it's not true,
641
00:33:56,494 --> 00:33:57,888
and that men are slaves
in this world
642
00:33:57,912 --> 00:34:01,290
and women are...
643
00:34:01,499 --> 00:34:03,834
1 don't think women are
necessarily the puppet masters,
644
00:34:04,043 --> 00:34:08,297
but I think they're
saying that women
645
00:34:08,506 --> 00:34:12,801
have the easy way out
and men are...
646
00:34:13,010 --> 00:34:15,137
They're given medals and statues
647
00:34:15,346 --> 00:34:17,348
and written in the history books
648
00:34:17,556 --> 00:34:21,435
to justify them dying
and being slaves to work
649
00:34:21,644 --> 00:34:23,812
or being, uh...
650
00:34:24,021 --> 00:34:27,066
Being used
to progress societies.
651
00:34:32,821 --> 00:34:35,741
And I've just...
I've believed for so long
652
00:34:35,950 --> 00:34:39,328
that... that I'm...
653
00:34:39,537 --> 00:34:42,289
At a disadvantage
for being a woman
654
00:34:42,498 --> 00:34:44,418
and that I have to work
harder than everyone else
655
00:34:44,542 --> 00:34:47,753
and I have more to overcome
and I have more to prove
656
00:34:47,962 --> 00:34:49,463
just because of my gender.
657
00:34:49,672 --> 00:34:52,132
But the mras are saying
that this is all a lie
658
00:34:52,341 --> 00:34:53,759
and that guys
are actually the ones
659
00:34:53,968 --> 00:34:58,180
that are disadvantaged
and discriminated against.
660
00:35:02,226 --> 00:35:03,936
And, actually,
the more 1 learn from them,
661
00:35:04,144 --> 00:35:07,189
the more I think, "thank god
i wasn't born a guy."
662
00:35:07,398 --> 00:35:10,150
Because I don't think
663
00:35:10,359 --> 00:35:15,364
that the expectations on men...
664
00:35:15,573 --> 00:35:17,366
Is good or healthy.
665
00:35:17,575 --> 00:35:19,451
I mean,
they have so much pressure
666
00:35:19,660 --> 00:35:21,287
to succeed and to be strong
667
00:35:21,495 --> 00:35:23,372
and to stand up
and protect others
668
00:35:23,581 --> 00:35:25,457
and to put their lives
on the line.
669
00:35:28,544 --> 00:35:30,754
I don't think I would want
that responsibility.
670
00:35:30,963 --> 00:35:35,050
But, you know, 5o years ago,
671
00:35:35,259 --> 00:35:36,885
no, I wouldn't have
wanted to be a woman.
672
00:35:39,972 --> 00:35:42,975
But now, I mean,
maybe just 11"s right now
673
00:35:43,183 --> 00:35:44,393
that the tides are changing
674
00:35:44,602 --> 00:35:48,355
and women are the...
675
00:35:48,564 --> 00:35:50,941
Have the better deal.
676
00:35:51,150 --> 00:35:52,818
Well, no, I don't know.
677
00:35:59,992 --> 00:36:01,410
And then sometimes I think
678
00:36:01,619 --> 00:36:05,831
the mras are just duping me
679
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,627
and gmng such a strong pitch
680
00:36:09,835 --> 00:36:11,211
about what they believe in
681
00:36:11,420 --> 00:36:13,297
to convince me of something
682
00:36:13,505 --> 00:36:16,300
that's actually just
some out there theory
683
00:36:16,508 --> 00:36:17,843
that men
are discriminated against
684
00:36:18,052 --> 00:36:20,346
and women are...
Have the advantage.
685
00:36:25,142 --> 00:36:29,021
Yes, this is Cassie jaye.
686
00:36:29,229 --> 00:36:32,316
It's regarding a documentary
about the men's rights movement,
687
00:36:32,524 --> 00:36:36,028
and we're looking
for feminist voices now
688
00:36:36,236 --> 00:36:37,356
to speak in the documentary.
689
00:36:55,130 --> 00:36:56,840
Feminist majority.
690
00:36:57,049 --> 00:36:58,209
Yeah, hold on just one second.
691
00:37:10,229 --> 00:37:11,647
So I realized, "okay,
692
00:37:11,855 --> 00:37:13,583
I need to bring some
feminists into the mix...
693
00:37:13,607 --> 00:37:15,418
- Good. - ...To make sure
that we have that side.“
694
00:37:15,442 --> 00:37:16,485
good.
695
00:37:16,694 --> 00:37:18,487
I was researching rape culture,
696
00:37:18,696 --> 00:37:21,699
and so that's how
i stumbled across a website
697
00:37:21,907 --> 00:37:23,492
called avoiceformen.Com.
698
00:37:23,701 --> 00:37:25,595
So some of the people that
we've already interviewed
699
00:37:25,619 --> 00:37:29,832
on the mra side is Paul elam
with a voice for men.
700
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:31,875
- Yeah.
- Are you familiar with him?
701
00:37:32,084 --> 00:37:33,728
Oh, I'm familiar with him.
I've never met him.
702
00:37:33,752 --> 00:37:35,754
- Yeah.
- Obviously, they've spent
703
00:37:35,963 --> 00:37:37,357
a significant amount
of time and energy
704
00:37:37,381 --> 00:37:39,091
denouncing me, so I figured
i might as well
705
00:37:39,299 --> 00:37:41,552
have a look at what they say.
706
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,722
Yeah, really, the men's rights
movement is part of the backlash.
707
00:37:44,930 --> 00:37:47,433
- The backlash?
- To feminism.
708
00:37:47,641 --> 00:37:50,894
The men's rights movement
really got going
709
00:37:51,103 --> 00:37:53,105
as women began to make gains,
710
00:37:53,313 --> 00:37:56,108
and some men
have felt threatened
711
00:37:56,316 --> 00:38:00,612
by the opportunities that
have been opened up to women.
712
00:38:00,821 --> 00:38:02,061
And I don't know if it's because
713
00:38:02,197 --> 00:38:04,324
some of them feel threatened
714
00:38:04,533 --> 00:38:05,743
that they now have to compete
715
00:38:05,951 --> 00:38:07,911
with a lot more people
for their jobs.
716
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,915
They now can't
get into the best schools
717
00:38:12,124 --> 00:38:14,877
if a woman or a girl
has better grades.
718
00:38:15,085 --> 00:38:16,545
Think about it.
719
00:38:16,754 --> 00:38:18,338
Grandfather's generation
probably had it
720
00:38:18,547 --> 00:38:20,340
pretty well, right?
721
00:38:20,549 --> 00:38:24,553
All of his needs,
his shirts were ironed,
722
00:38:24,762 --> 00:38:26,722
all of that was always
taken care of.
723
00:38:26,930 --> 00:38:28,182
Well, you know, grow up,
724
00:38:28,390 --> 00:38:30,768
realize the world has changed.
725
00:38:30,976 --> 00:38:33,353
And as much as the mras
726
00:38:33,562 --> 00:38:35,522
would like things to go back
to the way they were
727
00:38:35,689 --> 00:38:38,484
and use the argument
728
00:38:38,692 --> 00:38:40,360
that women
have an advantage now...
729
00:38:42,321 --> 00:38:44,490
No person looking at the data
730
00:38:44,698 --> 00:38:46,950
can possibly say women
have an advantage.
731
00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:51,580
We're just beginning to get
a level playing field here.
732
00:38:51,789 --> 00:38:56,168
It's not tilted in our favor,
i can tell you that.
733
00:38:56,376 --> 00:38:58,587
And they know it.
They know it.
734
00:38:58,796 --> 00:39:04,468
But it's the constant
distortion of the data,
735
00:39:04,676 --> 00:39:08,639
it's the spinning of a situation
736
00:39:08,847 --> 00:39:12,976
to make it look like women
are somehow getting ahead,
737
00:39:13,185 --> 00:39:15,771
getting an advantage
they don't deserve.
738
00:39:15,979 --> 00:39:20,067
Um, it's, uh...
It's part of the backlash.
739
00:39:20,275 --> 00:39:24,446
Political organizing comes from
a feeling of victimization,
740
00:39:24,655 --> 00:39:27,199
which 1s why the men's rights
movement makes that claim
741
00:39:27,366 --> 00:39:30,077
that men are the victims
of discrimination.
742
00:39:30,285 --> 00:39:31,703
But it doesn't
have much traction
743
00:39:31,912 --> 00:39:35,541
because you look around
and it's hard to see it.
744
00:39:35,749 --> 00:39:38,836
We don't have movements called,
you know, straight liberation.
745
00:39:39,044 --> 00:39:42,548
Is the men's... the question
i would pose rhetorically is
746
00:39:42,756 --> 00:39:47,427
is the men's rights movement
really the gendered version
747
00:39:47,636 --> 00:39:49,346
of the white
nationalist movement?
748
00:39:49,555 --> 00:39:52,432
Because there are plenty
of white people
749
00:39:52,641 --> 00:39:54,268
who say that
they are the victims
750
00:39:54,476 --> 00:39:56,353
of reverse discrimination.
751
00:39:56,562 --> 00:39:58,730
Of course, it's not gonna have
very much traction.
752
00:39:58,939 --> 00:40:03,235
You can't really organize the
people who are super ordinate.
753
00:40:07,823 --> 00:40:09,908
So do you think that men
754
00:40:10,117 --> 00:40:13,662
are being discriminated
against in any way?
755
00:40:13,871 --> 00:40:15,664
Not under the law.
756
00:40:15,873 --> 00:40:18,667
Men are not disadvantaged
under our laws
757
00:40:18,876 --> 00:40:22,754
or in the business world.
758
00:40:22,963 --> 00:40:26,675
As a class, men are not
underrepresented on corporate boards
759
00:40:26,884 --> 00:40:29,887
or the top of the fortune
1,000 companies.
760
00:40:30,095 --> 00:40:32,681
In the corporate world,
in the business world,
761
00:40:32,890 --> 00:40:34,683
in a lot of parts of academia,
762
00:40:34,892 --> 00:40:37,269
in the military,
in the sports world,
763
00:40:37,436 --> 00:40:40,564
it's still pretty much
a male-dominated world,
764
00:40:40,772 --> 00:40:41,982
where a lot of the prmleges
765
00:40:42,190 --> 00:40:44,651
and power and status
accrue to men.
766
00:40:44,860 --> 00:40:49,281
Men are advantaged over women,
no question.
767
00:40:49,489 --> 00:40:52,534
No one can...
No one can debate that.
768
00:40:52,743 --> 00:40:55,245
Not with a serious...
769
00:40:55,454 --> 00:40:58,582
Not in any seriousness.
770
00:41:08,300 --> 00:41:10,385
1 was a math
major as an undergraduate,
771
00:41:10,594 --> 00:41:13,555
and one of the fundamental
things about geometry
772
00:41:13,764 --> 00:41:16,266
is the distance
from point "a" to point "b"
773
00:41:16,475 --> 00:41:19,519
equals the distance
from point "b" to point "a,"
774
00:41:19,728 --> 00:41:22,648
and if women
are so different from men
775
00:41:22,856 --> 00:41:25,525
that men can't understand
the female experience,
776
00:41:25,734 --> 00:41:28,320
we need to listen to women
to describe it,
777
00:41:28,528 --> 00:41:30,322
then the male experience
is so different
778
00:41:30,530 --> 00:41:32,730
from the female experience
that you can't understand it.
779
00:41:32,908 --> 00:41:34,284
You need to listen to us.
780
00:41:34,493 --> 00:41:36,328
You can't really compare
781
00:41:36,536 --> 00:41:41,750
how men and women
have suffered from sexism.
782
00:41:41,959 --> 00:41:44,795
There's no way to quantify,
783
00:41:45,003 --> 00:41:48,173
you know,
that kind of suffering.
784
00:41:48,382 --> 00:41:52,719
So 1f a woman says, “well, 1
miss 30°10 of my income...
785
00:41:57,891 --> 00:42:01,311
More than you miss
six years of life..."
786
00:42:04,815 --> 00:42:06,817
There's no way to quantify that.
787
00:42:07,025 --> 00:42:10,779
Or "I've lost a job opportunity
because I'm a woman."
788
00:42:10,988 --> 00:42:14,366
There's no way to say,
"I've suffered more than you"
789
00:42:14,574 --> 00:42:16,994
because you've lost a kid
because you're a man.
790
00:42:17,202 --> 00:42:20,080
You know, we can't...
But it is serious.
791
00:42:20,288 --> 00:42:23,709
And at least if...
792
00:42:23,917 --> 00:42:26,211
If you're denied a job
because you're a woman,
793
00:42:26,420 --> 00:42:27,900
at least you can go
to another company
794
00:42:28,005 --> 00:42:29,464
and apply for a job, you know?
795
00:42:29,673 --> 00:42:31,383
But you can't...
When you lose your kid,
796
00:42:31,591 --> 00:42:33,593
you can't say, "okay, I'll
get custody of that kid.
797
00:42:33,802 --> 00:42:35,595
I'll try for that one."
798
00:42:35,804 --> 00:42:38,181
It's a terrible thing
that happens.
799
00:42:41,101 --> 00:42:43,854
There was a case...
The serpico case.
800
00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:49,234
You might be too young
to know the movie "serpico"
801
00:42:49,443 --> 00:42:50,963
- with al Pacino.
- Yeah, I don't know.
802
00:42:51,028 --> 00:42:53,071
It was about a New York City
undercover cop.
803
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:54,680
He gets shot at the end
of the movie
804
00:42:54,781 --> 00:42:56,283
and retires
from the police force.
805
00:42:56,491 --> 00:42:58,869
And he was a real man,
frank serpico.
806
00:42:59,077 --> 00:43:02,539
A woman, after the movie,
after this was made,
807
00:43:02,748 --> 00:43:04,624
decided she wanted
to become a single mother
808
00:43:04,833 --> 00:43:07,085
and tricked him
into fathering a child.
809
00:43:07,294 --> 00:43:08,837
And the court accepted that,
810
00:43:09,046 --> 00:43:11,256
because she told her friends
she was going to trick him
811
00:43:11,465 --> 00:43:12,985
and they testified,
and the court said,
812
00:43:13,050 --> 00:43:14,885
"yes, you were tricked into it,"
813
00:43:15,093 --> 00:43:19,139
and still awarded her over 90°/o
of his police pension.
814
00:43:19,306 --> 00:43:21,226
So everything that he
goes through in this movie,
815
00:43:21,433 --> 00:43:24,853
including getting shot,
to earn his pension,
816
00:43:25,062 --> 00:43:28,857
she won by
sleeping with him one night.
817
00:43:29,066 --> 00:43:30,859
My son's mom wanted
to have children with me
818
00:43:31,068 --> 00:43:32,652
and I had always refused,
819
00:43:32,861 --> 00:43:34,863
you know, saying,
"you have this anger problem.
820
00:43:35,072 --> 00:43:36,406
You need to get counseling.
821
00:43:36,615 --> 00:43:38,658
I'm not gonna consider
having children with you
822
00:43:38,867 --> 00:43:40,494
until that's dealt with,"
823
00:43:40,702 --> 00:43:42,913
'cause she would lose
her temper almost every day,
824
00:43:43,121 --> 00:43:44,623
and just use
any weapon she could.
825
00:43:44,831 --> 00:43:47,375
And, like, a child's
the perfect weapon,
826
00:43:47,584 --> 00:43:49,086
so I was really
definite about that.
827
00:43:49,294 --> 00:43:52,130
But she also used to proofread
my articles for me.
828
00:43:52,339 --> 00:43:56,093
And I wrote an article
for "playboy" about serpico.
829
00:43:56,301 --> 00:43:59,096
And when she read that,
she told her friend
830
00:43:59,304 --> 00:44:01,681
she's gonna trick me
into fathering the child.
831
00:44:01,890 --> 00:44:03,391
She doesn't need my permission.
832
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,604
And so that's how my son
was conceived.
833
00:44:07,813 --> 00:44:11,108
Then she said,
"if you wanna see your son,
834
00:44:11,316 --> 00:44:13,276
you have to stay
in a relationship with me.
835
00:44:13,485 --> 00:44:14,986
But if you break up with me,
836
00:44:15,195 --> 00:44:17,489
I know all the things
that a woman can do to a man."
837
00:44:17,656 --> 00:44:20,700
You know, she read all my articles.
She saw my talk shows.
838
00:44:20,909 --> 00:44:22,637
She said, "1 know all the
things a woman can do to a man,
839
00:44:22,661 --> 00:44:23,995
and I'll do 'em to you."
840
00:44:24,204 --> 00:44:26,623
So, um, that's what
i had to deal with.
841
00:44:26,832 --> 00:44:29,084
Everything that I had been
raising awareness about
842
00:44:29,292 --> 00:44:31,753
for the previous 17 years,
843
00:44:31,962 --> 00:44:35,715
she combined into one thing
for me to live through.
844
00:44:35,924 --> 00:44:37,676
It's really ironic.
845
00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:43,515
For the first...
846
00:44:43,723 --> 00:44:46,768
Five to seven years, I guess,
847
00:44:46,977 --> 00:44:50,188
we would see each other four
times a day for exchanges.
848
00:44:50,397 --> 00:44:52,107
On average, every single day
849
00:44:52,315 --> 00:44:54,442
I had to deal
with some scene...
850
00:44:54,651 --> 00:44:57,362
A scene meaning
she would just not show up
851
00:44:57,571 --> 00:45:00,949
or she would hold the kid out
and then pull him back
852
00:45:01,158 --> 00:45:02,367
and hold him out
and pull him...
853
00:45:02,576 --> 00:45:03,719
And just kind of play with me.
854
00:45:03,743 --> 00:45:05,162
Or she'd let me have the kid
855
00:45:05,370 --> 00:45:06,556
and then she'd stand
in front of the car
856
00:45:06,580 --> 00:45:07,580
so I couldn't move.
857
00:45:15,338 --> 00:45:18,550
Another time, I saw her
hold him by the shoulders
858
00:45:18,758 --> 00:45:20,760
and say, "daddy is a bad man.
859
00:45:20,969 --> 00:45:22,929
Daddy is a very bad man."
860
00:45:25,307 --> 00:45:27,350
And so I had to go through
this long custody battle,
861
00:45:27,559 --> 00:45:29,936
and the decisions
that they would make,
862
00:45:30,145 --> 00:45:32,147
you would just go, "how... "
863
00:45:32,355 --> 00:45:34,482
there couldn't
be any explanation.
864
00:45:34,691 --> 00:45:38,403
Either they're absolute idiots
or it's biased.
865
00:45:38,612 --> 00:45:40,697
There's just no other
explanation for it.
866
00:45:42,949 --> 00:45:45,410
One other thing,
his mom is obese
867
00:45:45,619 --> 00:45:49,456
and wanted him to be obese
for various reasons.
868
00:45:49,664 --> 00:45:51,791
One thing is
so he would identify
869
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,836
more with her side
of the family than mine,
870
00:45:55,045 --> 00:45:57,631
'cause we're all...
All thin.
871
00:45:57,797 --> 00:46:01,009
Another was so that he would
enjoy being with her more,
872
00:46:01,218 --> 00:46:04,137
'cause when he was at my house,
he had to get actmty,
873
00:46:04,346 --> 00:46:06,223
you know, and eat
well-balanced meals,
874
00:46:06,431 --> 00:46:08,016
and get his sleep and stuff.
875
00:46:08,225 --> 00:46:10,227
And at her house,
they would bake brownies
876
00:46:10,435 --> 00:46:12,479
and stay up late
and just watch TV.
877
00:46:12,687 --> 00:46:14,332
So where would you...
If you're a little kid,
878
00:46:14,356 --> 00:46:16,233
where would you
enjoy being more?
879
00:46:16,441 --> 00:46:19,819
But he self-reported
to the mediator
880
00:46:20,028 --> 00:46:22,197
how upset he was
about being obese,
881
00:46:22,405 --> 00:46:24,115
that the worst thing in school
882
00:46:24,324 --> 00:46:27,494
was when kids called him fatty
and how he cried,
883
00:46:27,702 --> 00:46:30,038
and his physician said that
884
00:46:30,247 --> 00:46:32,207
he's really concerned medically.
885
00:46:32,415 --> 00:46:34,042
And then what I did,
he was at an age
886
00:46:34,251 --> 00:46:37,045
where he would imitate
things that I would do.
887
00:46:37,254 --> 00:46:38,694
You know,
i gave him a broken shaver,
888
00:46:38,838 --> 00:46:40,840
so when I shaved,
he would pretend to shave.
889
00:46:41,049 --> 00:46:42,342
And what I did was,
890
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:44,070
I started weighing myself
every morning
891
00:46:44,261 --> 00:46:48,056
and writing down my weight,
the date and my weight,
892
00:46:48,265 --> 00:46:49,705
and I taught him
how to read a scale.
893
00:46:49,891 --> 00:46:53,061
So he kept his own records.
894
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:57,065
So I had six months worth of
statistics to show consistently
895
00:46:57,274 --> 00:46:59,859
that every time he was with
his mom for a few days,
896
00:47:00,068 --> 00:47:02,279
he'd come back weighing
three to four pounds more,
897
00:47:02,487 --> 00:47:04,864
and then he'd lose it
while he was with me.
898
00:47:05,073 --> 00:47:06,658
So they had, you know,
899
00:47:06,866 --> 00:47:08,827
how much he was upset
about the problem,
900
00:47:09,035 --> 00:47:11,496
they had his physician
being upset about the problem,
901
00:47:11,705 --> 00:47:13,665
and they had the proof
of where the problem lay.
902
00:47:13,873 --> 00:47:15,500
So the judges' decision
903
00:47:15,709 --> 00:47:17,502
was, um, that father
should no longer
904
00:47:17,711 --> 00:47:19,879
be allowed to weigh the child.
905
00:47:20,088 --> 00:47:21,088
Problem solved.
906
00:47:25,135 --> 00:47:27,679
After 14 years,
my body gave out.
907
00:47:27,887 --> 00:47:29,514
And I got sicker
than I've ever been.
908
00:47:29,723 --> 00:47:31,308
I realized I'm gonna die.
909
00:47:31,516 --> 00:47:32,796
That's not
gonna do anybody good.
910
00:47:32,851 --> 00:47:34,102
I've gotta give up the fight.
911
00:47:34,311 --> 00:47:35,520
So I gave up custody,
912
00:47:35,729 --> 00:47:37,814
and so I don't
see my son anymore.
913
00:47:38,023 --> 00:47:40,108
He hasn't been
in my house since.
914
00:47:40,317 --> 00:47:42,110
- Um.
- I'm so sorry.
915
00:47:42,319 --> 00:47:44,404
So I did lose him.
916
00:47:44,571 --> 00:47:49,326
♪ Just like a dream
917
00:47:51,536 --> 00:47:55,123
♪ you're like a guiding light
shining in the night
918
00:47:55,332 --> 00:47:59,336
Fred claims that during
his 14-year custody battle,
919
00:47:59,544 --> 00:48:00,628
he spent the equivalent
920
00:48:00,837 --> 00:48:03,256
of five years
of his gross income
921
00:48:03,465 --> 00:48:05,467
on legal fees, mediators,
922
00:48:05,675 --> 00:48:07,635
and child support payments.
923
00:48:07,844 --> 00:48:09,554
I was really
in his life a lot longer
924
00:48:09,763 --> 00:48:11,931
than most fathers
would have been.
925
00:48:12,140 --> 00:48:14,559
It's something
most fathers can't afford.
926
00:48:17,771 --> 00:48:23,151
♪ You are so beautiful
927
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:24,360
ito me
928
00:48:33,495 --> 00:48:35,372
we generally know that fathers
929
00:48:35,580 --> 00:48:37,099
don't get as good a deal
in family court
930
00:48:37,123 --> 00:48:38,750
and we don't really
complain about it
931
00:48:38,958 --> 00:48:40,168
until it happens to us,
932
00:48:40,377 --> 00:48:41,697
and even then,
a lot of men don't.
933
00:48:41,753 --> 00:48:43,380
Many men's rights actmsts
934
00:48:43,588 --> 00:48:45,548
come into being
men's rights actmsts
935
00:48:45,757 --> 00:48:47,425
as a result
of getting a divorce,
936
00:48:47,634 --> 00:48:49,362
wanting to be equally
involved with the children,
937
00:48:49,386 --> 00:48:52,389
and realizing that women
have the right to children
938
00:48:52,597 --> 00:48:55,600
and men have to fight
for children.
939
00:48:55,809 --> 00:48:59,604
When your family
courts run on the supposition
940
00:48:59,813 --> 00:49:03,900
that mothers are more fit
to be custodial parents
941
00:49:04,109 --> 00:49:06,986
and that fathers are more fit
942
00:49:07,195 --> 00:49:11,408
to provide a check every month
943
00:49:11,616 --> 00:49:14,994
and to become what we like
to call "uncle daddy,"
944
00:49:15,203 --> 00:49:17,997
where they visit...
Visit their children,
945
00:49:18,206 --> 00:49:20,625
to me, that's one of the greatest
obscenities 1n the world,
946
00:49:20,834 --> 00:49:23,336
the idea of visiting
your own children,
947
00:49:23,545 --> 00:49:24,796
where you get to see them
948
00:49:25,004 --> 00:49:26,840
for two hours
on Wednesday night,
949
00:49:27,048 --> 00:49:31,344
and you get to have them for “x“
amount of hours every other weekend,
950
00:49:31,553 --> 00:49:33,930
and you have no say
in how they're brought up.
951
00:49:45,525 --> 00:49:46,734
You know, I can't tell you
952
00:49:46,943 --> 00:49:49,863
how many men
have been in this office,
953
00:49:50,071 --> 00:49:52,532
in that chair,
954
00:49:52,740 --> 00:49:56,453
in tears because they can't
see their kids.
955
00:50:11,634 --> 00:50:12,760
Yeah, and some of this stuff
956
00:50:12,969 --> 00:50:15,305
ends up in horrific
consequences.
957
00:50:15,513 --> 00:50:18,766
Like this gentleman here,
that's his little son.
958
00:50:18,975 --> 00:50:20,685
They found him dead...
959
00:50:20,894 --> 00:50:22,687
Not the son, but the young man,
960
00:50:22,896 --> 00:50:26,274
in the desert
with a bullet in his head
961
00:50:26,483 --> 00:50:28,693
the day before the family court
962
00:50:28,902 --> 00:50:30,487
where it became known
963
00:50:30,695 --> 00:50:33,490
that he was gonna get to see
his little guy even less.
964
00:50:35,617 --> 00:50:37,494
And of course,
he'd be falsely accused
965
00:50:37,702 --> 00:50:39,287
one time after another
after another.
966
00:50:39,496 --> 00:50:41,080
It had destroyed his life.
967
00:50:41,289 --> 00:50:43,875
It had bankrupt him,
driven him into debt.
968
00:50:44,083 --> 00:50:45,293
It caused him to miss work.
969
00:50:45,502 --> 00:50:47,295
He was about ready
to lose his job.
970
00:50:47,504 --> 00:50:48,689
He was at the end of his rope,
971
00:50:48,713 --> 00:50:52,342
so he just decided to end it.
972
00:50:52,550 --> 00:50:55,720
The unfairness
in the family courts,
973
00:50:55,929 --> 00:50:57,449
the unfairness
in the way child support
974
00:50:57,514 --> 00:50:58,890
is so often structured,
975
00:50:59,098 --> 00:51:00,642
it's commonplace,
and it's everywhere,
976
00:51:00,850 --> 00:51:02,495
and the more you start
to become conscious of it,
977
00:51:02,519 --> 00:51:04,020
the more you realize
that it's there.
978
00:51:09,692 --> 00:51:13,738
1 started to research
some father's rights issues
979
00:51:13,947 --> 00:51:18,117
and came across
some harrowing stories,
980
00:51:18,326 --> 00:51:20,578
like this man in south Carolina
981
00:51:20,787 --> 00:51:23,331
who found out his
only daughter was adopted away
982
00:51:23,540 --> 00:51:26,918
by the mother without
his knowledge or consent...
983
00:51:27,126 --> 00:51:28,169
His daughter was with
984
00:51:28,378 --> 00:51:30,547
an adoptive family
in California,
985
00:51:30,755 --> 00:51:32,966
so he began his fight
to get his daughter back.
986
00:51:33,132 --> 00:51:36,135
Adoption is for children
without families,
987
00:51:36,344 --> 00:51:39,764
not children with a willing
and capable family.
988
00:51:39,973 --> 00:51:41,933
And this man in Colorado
989
00:51:42,141 --> 00:51:44,561
who lost his daughter
when the mother left the state
990
00:51:44,769 --> 00:51:46,354
to give birth in Utah
991
00:51:46,563 --> 00:51:49,315
where he wouldn't have
legal rights to his child.
992
00:51:49,524 --> 00:51:51,359
He fought for
four years in court
993
00:51:51,568 --> 00:51:55,363
and finally won
visitation rights...
994
00:51:55,572 --> 00:51:57,574
Only visitation.
995
00:51:57,782 --> 00:52:00,159
1 can't explain the
emotion, the happiness...
996
00:52:00,368 --> 00:52:03,705
This hard fight,
and what this means to me...
997
00:52:03,913 --> 00:52:06,833
And then there's
this heartbreaking story.
998
00:52:07,041 --> 00:52:09,794
The 2o year old
father never left her side
999
00:52:10,003 --> 00:52:12,839
until he was forced to give her
to adoptive parents this week
1000
00:52:13,047 --> 00:52:16,009
after Kaylee's mother decided
to put her up for adoption.
1001
00:52:16,217 --> 00:52:17,969
In order to keep Kaylee,
1002
00:52:18,136 --> 00:52:21,180
Colby needed to file paternity
action, an affidavit,
1003
00:52:21,389 --> 00:52:24,183
and a commencement notice
with Utah's vital records
1004
00:52:24,392 --> 00:52:25,810
a day before the mother signed
1005
00:52:26,019 --> 00:52:28,187
the adoption papers
relinquishing her rights.
1006
00:52:28,396 --> 00:52:31,608
But 1n Colby's case, the mother
only gave him a few hours notice
1007
00:52:31,816 --> 00:52:33,651
of what she was going to do.
1008
00:52:33,860 --> 00:52:36,446
I would like her back.
1009
00:52:36,654 --> 00:52:37,905
Men in the men's movement
1010
00:52:38,114 --> 00:52:41,618
are not upset
about having to be fathers.
1011
00:52:41,826 --> 00:52:44,871
They're upset because they're
not allowed to be fathers.
1012
00:52:45,079 --> 00:52:48,416
That guy...
1013
00:52:48,625 --> 00:52:50,627
Blows his head off,
blows his brains out.
1014
00:52:50,835 --> 00:52:54,005
Out of family court?
1015
00:52:54,213 --> 00:52:56,453
And people don't think there's
something wrong with that?
1016
00:52:58,384 --> 00:53:01,095
We just open the doors
tomorrow for business as usual
1017
00:53:01,304 --> 00:53:02,972
and that's okay?
1018
00:53:12,607 --> 00:53:14,233
I've always
thought of feminism
1019
00:53:14,442 --> 00:53:17,820
as being the fight
for gender equality.
1020
00:53:18,029 --> 00:53:20,448
And yet I've never heard
about father's rights
1021
00:53:20,657 --> 00:53:23,284
and the injustices going on
in family court.
1022
00:53:25,036 --> 00:53:26,704
Why is this?
1023
00:53:26,913 --> 00:53:32,251
I decided to ask gender studies
professor Michael messner.
1024
00:53:32,460 --> 00:53:35,880
Well, I'll just say,
i don't think 11"s...
1025
00:53:36,089 --> 00:53:37,882
I don't think that a lot
of their assumptions
1026
00:53:38,091 --> 00:53:39,926
are correct to start with.
1027
00:53:40,134 --> 00:53:42,470
There's no doubt
that there have been some men
1028
00:53:42,679 --> 00:53:44,263
who get just screwed
1029
00:53:44,472 --> 00:53:49,060
by court decisions
and custody cases.
1030
00:53:49,268 --> 00:53:53,272
But I think when you look
at the broader patterns,
1031
00:53:53,481 --> 00:53:56,275
it's still the case that
1032
00:53:56,484 --> 00:54:01,155
in intact heterosexual
families with kids,
1033
00:54:01,364 --> 00:54:03,116
women are still doing
the vast majority
1034
00:54:03,282 --> 00:54:05,785
of the housework and child care,
1035
00:54:05,993 --> 00:54:08,788
and there's a lot of
sort of father absence,
1036
00:54:08,996 --> 00:54:10,790
lack of participation
by fathers,
1037
00:54:10,957 --> 00:54:15,503
some of whom, I think,
after divorce happens,
1038
00:54:15,712 --> 00:54:19,090
end up suddenly wanting
1039
00:54:19,298 --> 00:54:22,719
equality, you know, as fathers
1040
00:54:22,927 --> 00:54:24,927
when they haven't really
been participating equally
1041
00:54:25,054 --> 00:54:26,264
as fathers before.
1042
00:54:26,472 --> 00:54:29,559
So to me, it always
kind of swings back
1043
00:54:29,767 --> 00:54:33,646
to the feminist perspective
of how we need to push
1044
00:54:33,855 --> 00:54:35,940
for full equality
across the board,
1045
00:54:36,149 --> 00:54:39,110
including before divorces.
1046
00:54:39,318 --> 00:54:41,738
And if we have that,
then we might expect
1047
00:54:41,946 --> 00:54:44,657
more symmetry
after divorces happen.
1048
00:54:49,203 --> 00:54:51,539
The more i
researched father's rights,
1049
00:54:51,748 --> 00:54:55,501
the more I realized how deep
this rabbit hole goes,
1050
00:54:55,710 --> 00:54:58,463
not only in
the amount of issues,
1051
00:54:58,671 --> 00:55:00,131
but also in the vast array
1052
00:55:00,339 --> 00:55:03,676
of perspectives on these issues.
1053
00:55:03,885 --> 00:55:05,970
I decided to create a flow chart
1054
00:55:06,179 --> 00:55:09,098
of what I thought
fathers' options might be
1055
00:55:09,307 --> 00:55:11,976
following a surprise pregnancy.
1056
00:55:12,185 --> 00:55:14,353
I then put a green line
for the paths
1057
00:55:14,562 --> 00:55:16,981
that I thought would be
good turn-outs for the father.
1058
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:18,566
And I put red lines
for the paths
1059
00:55:18,775 --> 00:55:21,986
that seemed to not be good
for the father.
1060
00:55:22,195 --> 00:55:25,573
Then I created a flow chart
for women's options
1061
00:55:25,782 --> 00:55:27,950
and did the same
with green and red lines.
1062
00:55:31,162 --> 00:55:32,997
And as I stepped back,
1063
00:55:33,206 --> 00:55:36,167
I saw all the red lines
for the women's options
1064
00:55:36,375 --> 00:55:37,960
if she does not want the child.
1065
00:55:40,338 --> 00:55:43,299
But something dawned on me.
1066
00:55:43,508 --> 00:55:48,387
Of every path the biological
father could go down,
1067
00:55:48,596 --> 00:55:52,517
he's at the mercy of
the woman's sole discretion.
1068
00:55:52,725 --> 00:55:56,479
Although women have
very difficult choices to make,
1069
00:55:56,687 --> 00:56:00,608
she at least has the choice.
1070
00:56:00,817 --> 00:56:02,819
But for biological fathers,
1071
00:56:03,027 --> 00:56:06,781
they have no say
over their parental destiny.
1072
00:56:19,794 --> 00:56:21,337
This is my friend darrah.
1073
00:56:21,546 --> 00:56:24,549
She's eight months pregnant
with her first child
1074
00:56:24,757 --> 00:56:27,051
and she's a lifelong feminist.
1075
00:56:30,972 --> 00:56:34,225
It seems from what I've read,
that women seem to have
1076
00:56:34,433 --> 00:56:37,228
more reproductive rights
than men do.
1077
00:56:37,436 --> 00:56:39,647
I don't know what to say.
We carry children.
1078
00:56:39,856 --> 00:56:41,232
They're never gonna
carry children.
1079
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:42,650
It's just a different thing.
1080
00:56:42,859 --> 00:56:45,069
So, 1 guess,
as much as possible,
1081
00:56:45,278 --> 00:56:48,656
take the steps
to prevent yourself
1082
00:56:48,865 --> 00:56:50,616
being in that situation.
1083
00:56:50,825 --> 00:56:52,545
It's just, like, I don't
know what to say.
1084
00:56:52,660 --> 00:56:55,079
There's no...
There's nothing...
1085
00:56:55,288 --> 00:56:57,415
A woman has been...
1086
00:56:57,623 --> 00:57:00,459
Women have been blamed for,
and still are,
1087
00:57:00,668 --> 00:57:04,255
for unwanted pregnancies,
1088
00:57:04,463 --> 00:57:05,673
choosing to have an abortion,
1089
00:57:05,882 --> 00:57:07,174
not choosing
to have an abortion,
1090
00:57:07,383 --> 00:57:09,260
choosing to put
their child up for adoption.
1091
00:57:09,468 --> 00:57:15,266
When the burden lies on a single
mother 1f the man leaves,
1092
00:57:15,474 --> 00:57:18,686
societally, she's lam basted.
1093
00:57:18,895 --> 00:57:20,104
So there's a lot of things
1094
00:57:20,313 --> 00:57:22,106
that women deal with
in that regard
1095
00:57:22,315 --> 00:57:24,275
that men don't
actually deal with.
1096
00:57:24,483 --> 00:57:26,903
So I can have compassion
for their situation,
1097
00:57:27,111 --> 00:57:28,696
but I don't know
that it's gonna change
1098
00:57:28,905 --> 00:57:31,699
in the way they want it to,
because it's biology.
1099
00:57:31,908 --> 00:57:34,702
So if you're going to
be having sex
1100
00:57:34,911 --> 00:57:36,704
that could result in pregnancy,
1101
00:57:36,913 --> 00:57:38,497
and you haven't had
this conversation
1102
00:57:38,706 --> 00:57:40,499
with the woman that
you're having sex with,
1103
00:57:40,708 --> 00:57:42,428
you better have it.
You better have it fast.
1104
00:57:42,543 --> 00:57:46,505
That's when the man has
the ability to make decisions...
1105
00:57:46,714 --> 00:57:50,509
Either not to engage in sex
or to use condoms
1106
00:57:50,718 --> 00:57:52,929
and to use other forms
of contraception.
1107
00:57:53,137 --> 00:57:55,514
That's where his role comes in.
1108
00:57:55,723 --> 00:57:57,350
Once he's impregnated her,
1109
00:57:57,558 --> 00:58:00,937
she's the one now faced
with continuing a pregnancy,
1110
00:58:01,145 --> 00:58:04,941
faced with the health risks
that accompany pregnancy.
1111
00:58:05,149 --> 00:58:08,319
So... his rights have to
1112
00:58:08,486 --> 00:58:11,113
be exercised early.
1113
00:58:11,322 --> 00:58:16,744
But once she's pregnant,
all decisions must be hers.
1114
00:58:16,953 --> 00:58:21,499
Because ultimately,
she is the most impacted.
1115
00:58:21,707 --> 00:58:23,334
There's just no question.
1116
00:58:23,501 --> 00:58:25,628
She ultimately has the
responsibility for that child.
1117
00:58:31,467 --> 00:58:32,593
So before we were married,
1118
00:58:32,802 --> 00:58:34,971
he promised me
we would have two kids,
1119
00:58:35,179 --> 00:58:36,806
and now he doesn't want anymore.
1120
00:58:37,014 --> 00:58:38,557
Aww.
1121
00:58:38,766 --> 00:58:40,126
My friends think
i should trick him
1122
00:58:40,184 --> 00:58:41,727
and stop taking
my birth control.
1123
00:58:41,894 --> 00:58:44,772
Men have never been
in control of our bodies,
1124
00:58:44,981 --> 00:58:46,565
we're the ones in control.
1125
00:58:46,774 --> 00:58:48,494
Clap if you think
that she should trick him.
1126
00:58:50,736 --> 00:58:54,782
My people.
Up next, everybody...
1127
00:58:54,991 --> 00:58:57,368
So it sounds like
men's reproductive rights
1128
00:58:57,576 --> 00:59:01,372
are limited to the choice
of whether or not to have sex
1129
00:59:01,580 --> 00:59:04,792
and the choice of whether
or not to use protection.
1130
00:59:05,001 --> 00:59:07,795
But what if he's tricked
into fatherhood?
1131
00:59:08,004 --> 00:59:12,383
Or what if he's not
even the father?
1132
00:59:12,591 --> 00:59:15,011
What does paternity fraud
look like?
1133
00:59:15,219 --> 00:59:19,849
It's ugly.
It's extraordinary ugly.
1134
00:59:20,057 --> 00:59:21,576
And we have to distinguish it
between paternity fraud
1135
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:24,228
- and wrongful paternity.
- What's the difference?
1136
00:59:24,437 --> 00:59:27,690
Wrongful paternity
can be innocent.
1137
00:59:27,898 --> 00:59:30,026
"Okay, we went to a party,
i had sex with six guys.
1138
00:59:30,234 --> 00:59:32,114
I think it was when I was
hanging out the window
1139
00:59:32,278 --> 00:59:34,030
I got pregnant,
but I wasn't sure.
1140
00:59:34,238 --> 00:59:36,008
But you know, if anybody
knows that guy's name,
1141
00:59:36,032 --> 00:59:38,617
would you please
have him call me?"
1142
00:59:38,826 --> 00:59:40,386
And then she names
one of the other guys
1143
00:59:40,453 --> 00:59:42,997
and he didn't have sex with her.
1144
00:59:43,205 --> 00:59:45,624
It wasn't malicious.
It wasn't intentional.
1145
00:59:45,833 --> 00:59:47,626
She wasn't trying
to harm anybody.
1146
00:59:47,835 --> 00:59:50,463
She was just trying
to figure out who it was.
1147
00:59:50,671 --> 00:59:53,340
Wrongful paternity.
1148
00:59:53,549 --> 00:59:56,677
More often,
and less facetiously,
1149
00:59:56,886 --> 00:59:58,804
"okay, I'm married
and I had an affair."
1150
01:00:01,599 --> 01:00:03,851
Obviously, here there's
all sorts of problems,
1151
01:00:04,060 --> 01:00:05,603
because there are more victims
1152
01:00:05,811 --> 01:00:07,491
than the person who's named
as dear old dad
1153
01:00:07,646 --> 01:00:10,066
who may be the wrong one.
1154
01:00:10,274 --> 01:00:11,835
There's everybody
involved in the family,
1155
01:00:11,859 --> 01:00:14,278
like the situation in Texas
1156
01:00:14,487 --> 01:00:16,327
where the family had five
little towhead kids...
1157
01:00:16,489 --> 01:00:18,657
All guys, all little blondos.
1158
01:00:18,866 --> 01:00:20,451
And all of a sudden,
1159
01:00:20,659 --> 01:00:21,845
one day one of the little
blondo kids gets in trouble,
1160
01:00:21,869 --> 01:00:23,454
has to go to the hospital.
1161
01:00:23,621 --> 01:00:25,621
They can't get ahold of mom.
They get ahold of dad.
1162
01:00:25,706 --> 01:00:28,876
Dad rushes to the hospital,
needs to give blood.
1163
01:00:29,085 --> 01:00:30,169
Whoops.
1164
01:00:30,336 --> 01:00:32,296
Can't do it. Wrong blood.
1165
01:00:32,505 --> 01:00:34,465
"What?"
1166
01:00:34,673 --> 01:00:36,884
All the kids look alike.
1167
01:00:37,093 --> 01:00:39,887
Turns out it was the guy
down the street.
1168
01:00:40,096 --> 01:00:42,306
- You've heard of this case?
- It's a real case.
1169
01:00:42,515 --> 01:00:44,767
So what happens to this family?
1170
01:00:44,975 --> 01:00:49,897
Can you fathom what happens
to this family?
1171
01:00:50,106 --> 01:00:51,899
How do think the kids feel
when they find out
1172
01:00:52,108 --> 01:00:53,317
dear old dad isn't dear old dad
1173
01:00:53,526 --> 01:00:54,669
and it's the guy down
the street?
1174
01:00:54,693 --> 01:00:56,946
How do you think dad feels,
1175
01:00:57,154 --> 01:00:59,907
that these five little boys
that he still loves dearly,
1176
01:01:00,116 --> 01:01:01,885
when he finds out they're
not his bio children.
1177
01:01:01,909 --> 01:01:03,828
But he can't tear away,
'cause he loves them.
1178
01:01:04,036 --> 01:01:06,122
He's devoted
himself to these...
1179
01:01:06,330 --> 01:01:08,290
How do you think he feels?
1180
01:01:08,499 --> 01:01:10,709
I mean, it's horrific.
1181
01:01:10,918 --> 01:01:13,129
Horrific.
1182
01:01:13,337 --> 01:01:16,132
That's not wrongful.
That's deliberate.
1183
01:01:16,340 --> 01:01:18,460
- So that's paternity fraud?
- That's paternity fraud.
1184
01:01:18,551 --> 01:01:20,553
She knew who the father was
and lied about it.
1185
01:01:22,930 --> 01:01:24,765
Paul was right when he said
1186
01:01:24,974 --> 01:01:27,351
trying to understand
the men's rights movement
1187
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:30,146
is like trying
to understand a snowdrift
1188
01:01:30,354 --> 01:01:34,358
one snowflake at a time.
1189
01:01:34,567 --> 01:01:36,944
There are unique
father's rights issues
1190
01:01:37,153 --> 01:01:40,531
that vary between
unmarried, married,
1191
01:01:40,739 --> 01:01:43,325
and divorced dads.
1192
01:01:43,534 --> 01:01:46,412
But there are also
men's right's issues
1193
01:01:46,620 --> 01:01:48,497
for non-biological fathers...
1194
01:01:51,917 --> 01:01:54,962
Like this man
who is facing jail time
1195
01:01:55,171 --> 01:01:56,964
for failure to pay child support
1196
01:01:57,173 --> 01:02:01,135
for a child that DNA tests
prove isn't his.
1197
01:02:01,343 --> 01:02:03,679
Carnell Alexander still owes
1198
01:02:03,888 --> 01:02:07,975
more than $30,000 to the state
for a child that's not his
1199
01:02:08,184 --> 01:02:10,186
because the mom
wrote his name down
1200
01:02:10,394 --> 01:02:11,979
because she needed
to name someone
1201
01:02:12,188 --> 01:02:13,898
in order to get
welfare benefits.
1202
01:02:14,106 --> 01:02:16,192
I had to put him down
as the father.
1203
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:17,961
That was the only way
i could get assistance.
1204
01:02:17,985 --> 01:02:21,405
I'm almost homeless.
I'm almost in jail.
1205
01:02:21,614 --> 01:02:23,073
I'm out of work
1206
01:02:23,282 --> 01:02:25,284
my money is being
threatened to be taken.
1207
01:02:25,451 --> 01:02:27,453
Reporter} He says the law
needs to be changed,
1208
01:02:27,661 --> 01:02:30,206
so when this happens,
as it often does,
1209
01:02:30,414 --> 01:02:33,167
other men don't become
dad by default.
1210
01:02:40,966 --> 01:02:43,552
A lot of times
people wonder about mras,
1211
01:02:43,761 --> 01:02:46,222
"why are you guys so angry?"
1212
01:02:46,430 --> 01:02:49,058
And my answer to that is,
"why aren't you?"
1213
01:02:49,266 --> 01:02:53,229
How can anybody look at this
and not be angered by it?
1214
01:02:53,437 --> 01:02:57,441
And the only answer to that I've
ever been able to come up with
1215
01:02:57,650 --> 01:02:59,818
is that people aren't angry
1216
01:03:00,027 --> 01:03:01,987
because they don't see men
as human beings.
1217
01:03:16,627 --> 01:03:19,838
I continued
traveling north America,
1218
01:03:20,047 --> 01:03:24,176
meeting mras
from all walks of life,
1219
01:03:24,385 --> 01:03:26,262
hearing their personal stories,
1220
01:03:26,470 --> 01:03:28,514
their red pill moments.
1221
01:03:28,722 --> 01:03:30,516
I met a young man
who was sexually abused
1222
01:03:30,724 --> 01:03:32,059
when he was 16 years old
1223
01:03:32,268 --> 01:03:34,019
while lmng
at a residential home
1224
01:03:34,228 --> 01:03:37,106
for people with
developmental disabilities.
1225
01:03:37,314 --> 01:03:39,251
She was the only woman
I've done anything ever with,
1226
01:03:39,275 --> 01:03:42,152
partly because it just
messed me up so much.
1227
01:03:42,361 --> 01:03:44,863
She continues working there.
1228
01:03:49,076 --> 01:03:51,287
She hit me in the face.
1229
01:03:51,495 --> 01:03:53,289
She actually hit me
throughout the house,
1230
01:03:53,497 --> 01:03:55,249
chased me throughout the house.
1231
01:03:55,499 --> 01:03:58,252
When I reported my domestic
assault to police officers,
1232
01:03:58,460 --> 01:04:03,215
I did not at all bring up the fact
that I was sexually assaulted.
1233
01:04:03,424 --> 01:04:05,092
Because if he wasn't
going to believe
1234
01:04:05,301 --> 01:04:07,511
that I was a victim
of domestic violence,
1235
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:09,160
there was no way
he was gonna believe
1236
01:04:09,305 --> 01:04:11,557
that I was gonna be
a victim of sexual assault.
1237
01:04:15,477 --> 01:04:18,314
I met the honey badgers,
1238
01:04:18,522 --> 01:04:21,150
women who are
men's rights advocates.
1239
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:27,716
And then there
was a 15-year-old boy,
1240
01:04:27,740 --> 01:04:29,116
there was
a 35-year-old woman,
1241
01:04:29,325 --> 01:04:30,805
and then later on
she came out of jail
1242
01:04:30,909 --> 01:04:34,330
and she was able
to collect child support
1243
01:04:34,538 --> 01:04:36,165
from this boy that she raped.
1244
01:04:36,373 --> 01:04:37,708
Yeah.
1245
01:04:37,916 --> 01:04:39,251
After getting out of jail.
1246
01:04:39,460 --> 01:04:41,128
So there's lack
of fairness for men
1247
01:04:41,337 --> 01:04:43,130
in the court systems.
1248
01:04:43,339 --> 01:04:45,924
When police officers show up
to a domestic violence case
1249
01:04:46,133 --> 01:04:47,843
often men were just taken away
1250
01:04:48,052 --> 01:04:50,137
without asking
what even happened.
1251
01:04:50,346 --> 01:04:52,556
It's just presumed
that men are the criminals.
1252
01:04:55,142 --> 01:04:58,354
I was assaulted several times,
and I never got any help.
1253
01:04:58,562 --> 01:05:01,023
I went to the police still
bleeding a couple of times,
1254
01:05:01,231 --> 01:05:04,735
and one police officer said...
1255
01:05:04,943 --> 01:05:08,155
I'll never forget this, he said,
1256
01:05:08,364 --> 01:05:09,644
"if she starts
hitting you again,
1257
01:05:09,782 --> 01:05:11,062
you better get out
of there fast,
1258
01:05:11,158 --> 01:05:12,198
because if she just breaks
1259
01:05:12,368 --> 01:05:13,577
a fingernail trying to hit you,
1260
01:05:13,786 --> 01:05:15,329
we'll arrest you."
1261
01:05:15,537 --> 01:05:17,017
I mean, I can't tell you
at this point
1262
01:05:17,122 --> 01:05:19,166
how many guys I've talked to
who are like,
1263
01:05:19,375 --> 01:05:20,560
"yeah, you know, she stabbed me
1264
01:05:20,584 --> 01:05:22,002
and they put me in jail."
1265
01:05:22,211 --> 01:05:24,755
Not only are there
endless studies
1266
01:05:24,963 --> 01:05:27,216
that show women are
just as violent as men are,
1267
01:05:27,424 --> 01:05:30,177
when I would talk about it,
invariably,
1268
01:05:30,386 --> 01:05:32,930
men would start coming out of
the woodwork with stories...
1269
01:05:35,933 --> 01:05:37,393
Stories they were
afraid to tell,
1270
01:05:37,601 --> 01:05:40,604
stories that they got
laughed at for,
1271
01:05:40,813 --> 01:05:43,148
stories they they
got blamed for.
1272
01:05:43,357 --> 01:05:47,403
It's hideous.
1273
01:05:47,611 --> 01:05:49,196
This is not flattering to men
1274
01:05:49,405 --> 01:05:50,989
to talk about
men's vulnerabilities,
1275
01:05:51,198 --> 01:05:54,785
to talk about the ways
that they are not strong
1276
01:05:54,993 --> 01:05:58,956
and that they are, well, weak.
1277
01:05:59,164 --> 01:06:01,625
And to be honest about it,
it's not flattering.
1278
01:06:01,834 --> 01:06:05,003
A solution for both genders
1279
01:06:05,212 --> 01:06:07,423
is that we need to be
able to recognize
1280
01:06:07,631 --> 01:06:09,800
how men are vulnerable
1281
01:06:10,008 --> 01:06:11,194
and we need to be able
to recognize
1282
01:06:11,218 --> 01:06:13,220
how women are actors.
1283
01:06:13,429 --> 01:06:16,306
Because we have
a huge blind spot
1284
01:06:16,515 --> 01:06:18,600
especially when women
do bad things.
1285
01:06:23,981 --> 01:06:25,190
My best friend
1286
01:06:25,399 --> 01:06:27,276
that I grew up with
since kindergarten
1287
01:06:27,484 --> 01:06:30,237
was being physically abused
by his wife
1288
01:06:30,446 --> 01:06:33,824
who he'd been married to
for 20 years.
1289
01:06:33,991 --> 01:06:36,952
She' ll break glass and
throw 1t at him, punch him.
1290
01:06:37,161 --> 01:06:39,246
I've seen it happen
spontaneously,
1291
01:06:39,455 --> 01:06:42,666
and it was frequent.
1292
01:06:42,875 --> 01:06:43,959
And he's bigger than her,
1293
01:06:44,168 --> 01:06:46,670
but he didn't want to hit her.
1294
01:06:46,879 --> 01:06:48,159
And he didn't want
the children...
1295
01:06:48,255 --> 01:06:49,673
They had three minor children,
1296
01:06:49,882 --> 01:06:52,843
he didn't want them
seeing this at all.
1297
01:06:53,051 --> 01:06:55,721
So he would usually
just go outside,
1298
01:06:55,929 --> 01:06:58,056
because there would be
glass breaking
1299
01:06:58,265 --> 01:07:00,476
or things being smashed
or yelling,
1300
01:07:00,684 --> 01:07:02,478
and he knew that the neighbors
1301
01:07:02,686 --> 01:07:04,354
might think it's him.
1302
01:07:04,563 --> 01:07:06,148
So he would go outside
1303
01:07:06,356 --> 01:07:09,359
so that the neighbors
could see what's happened.
1304
01:07:09,568 --> 01:07:11,487
Eventually, I said,
"look, you're gonna need...
1305
01:07:11,695 --> 01:07:13,415
You need professional help,
and so does she.
1306
01:07:13,489 --> 01:07:15,365
Maybe the kids do, too."
1307
01:07:15,574 --> 01:07:18,869
So I called a bunch of
domestic violence shelters.
1308
01:07:19,036 --> 01:07:21,497
I just looked around online
and I called,
1309
01:07:21,705 --> 01:07:24,082
but every place
that I called said,
1310
01:07:24,291 --> 01:07:25,876
"we don't help men.
1311
01:07:26,084 --> 01:07:28,629
We don't help male...
Men at all."
1312
01:07:28,837 --> 01:07:33,800
And I started becoming curious
about why that was,
1313
01:07:34,009 --> 01:07:37,429
'cause I learned that these
were state funded shelters.
1314
01:07:37,638 --> 01:07:41,099
And I know that men pay
at least half of the taxes
1315
01:07:41,308 --> 01:07:43,228
that fund these shelters
if they're state funded,
1316
01:07:43,310 --> 01:07:45,062
and I just was wondering why.
1317
01:07:45,270 --> 01:07:48,440
Basically, there was
no place to take him
1318
01:07:48,649 --> 01:07:50,108
and it just continued.
1319
01:07:50,317 --> 01:07:51,527
The problem just kept going.
1320
01:07:57,282 --> 01:07:58,742
In the United States,
1321
01:07:58,951 --> 01:08:03,747
there are over 2,000
domestic violence shelters.
1322
01:08:03,956 --> 01:08:06,667
All of them serve
female victims,
1323
01:08:06,875 --> 01:08:11,421
and nearly all of them
turn away male victims.
1324
01:08:13,924 --> 01:08:17,135
In fact, as of 2016,
1325
01:08:17,344 --> 01:08:20,764
there's only a single domestic
violence shelter for men.
1326
01:08:22,933 --> 01:08:25,352
My initial reaction
was that there needed to be
1327
01:08:25,561 --> 01:08:27,563
thousands more women's shelters
1328
01:08:27,771 --> 01:08:31,024
because that many more women
are being battered.
1329
01:08:31,233 --> 01:08:33,277
But as it turns out,
1330
01:08:33,485 --> 01:08:37,364
one in three women
and one in four men
1331
01:08:37,573 --> 01:08:39,783
will be victims
of physical violence
1332
01:08:39,992 --> 01:08:42,786
by an intimate partner
in their lifetime.
1333
01:08:42,995 --> 01:08:46,540
Sure, there's a slight
majority of female victims,
1334
01:08:46,748 --> 01:08:50,419
but how can that excuse
deny men help?
1335
01:08:50,627 --> 01:08:53,338
Couldn't this be considered
gender discrimination?
1336
01:08:58,427 --> 01:08:59,970
Think of it this way.
1337
01:09:00,178 --> 01:09:04,057
Roughly 78°/o
of all suicides are men.
1338
01:09:04,266 --> 01:09:08,604
If suicide prevention services
only served men,
1339
01:09:08,812 --> 01:09:12,816
wouldn't we see the gender
discrimination immediately?
1340
01:09:13,025 --> 01:09:15,819
If there are over 2,000
women's shelters
1341
01:09:16,028 --> 01:09:17,988
that turn away men,
1342
01:09:18,196 --> 01:09:20,616
and only one shelter for men,
1343
01:09:20,824 --> 01:09:23,910
obviously, the resources
don't match the need.
1344
01:09:27,956 --> 01:09:31,418
How are you involved in
the men's rights movement?
1345
01:09:31,627 --> 01:09:32,747
Well, from the very beginning
1346
01:09:32,878 --> 01:09:34,212
when I first opened the refuge,
1347
01:09:34,421 --> 01:09:38,425
which was in 1971
in chiswick in London,
1348
01:09:38,634 --> 01:09:40,844
almost as soon
as I took the women in,
1349
01:09:41,053 --> 01:09:44,222
I got a house for men.
1350
01:09:44,431 --> 01:09:47,643
A voice for men's
editor at large Erin pizzey
1351
01:09:47,851 --> 01:09:52,439
founded the first ever
women's shelter in 1971,
1352
01:09:52,648 --> 01:09:55,651
and she is widely revered
in the men's rights community.
1353
01:09:59,404 --> 01:10:01,490
'Cause you see, what
1 knew from the beginning,
1354
01:10:01,698 --> 01:10:04,034
most domestic violence
is consensual.
1355
01:10:04,201 --> 01:10:05,243
Both are involved.
1356
01:10:05,452 --> 01:10:07,079
Sometimes one's the perpetrator,
1357
01:10:07,287 --> 01:10:09,998
the other plays the victim,
then it crosses over.
1358
01:10:10,207 --> 01:10:13,460
It's not as though it's just
all men or all women.
1359
01:10:13,669 --> 01:10:17,047
It's both, and occasionally,
innocent victims...
1360
01:10:17,255 --> 01:10:18,255
Very innocent.
1361
01:10:22,094 --> 01:10:24,888
Battered children grow up to
batter, that's what t. Learned,
1362
01:10:25,097 --> 01:10:27,015
whether it be a man or a woman.
1363
01:10:27,224 --> 01:10:28,892
And I now know
that if a woman comes in
1364
01:10:29,101 --> 01:10:32,020
with a history of violence
in her own childhood,
1365
01:10:32,229 --> 01:10:34,690
chances are, she will be
probably violent to her children,
1366
01:10:34,898 --> 01:10:38,068
and she will want to live on this
knife edge of crisis and danger.
1367
01:10:40,987 --> 01:10:42,227
I haven't been allowed to speak.
1368
01:10:42,406 --> 01:10:44,491
- That's the difficulty.
- Why is that?
1369
01:10:44,700 --> 01:10:47,369
Because I'm completely barred
from all conferences.
1370
01:10:47,577 --> 01:10:49,913
I'm not allowed to walk up
the step of my own refuge.
1371
01:10:50,122 --> 01:10:51,248
I bought the bloody building.
1372
01:10:51,456 --> 01:10:53,291
But, no, because
there's feminists...
1373
01:10:53,500 --> 01:10:55,502
The woman who runs it
is very heavily feminist.
1374
01:10:55,711 --> 01:10:57,191
She won't have anything
to do with me.
1375
01:10:57,379 --> 01:11:00,632
What did you say
that made them hate you?
1376
01:11:00,841 --> 01:11:02,926
That women could be
equally as violent as men...
1377
01:11:03,135 --> 01:11:04,255
That was from the beginning.
1378
01:11:13,478 --> 01:11:15,522
Erin pizzey says that 62
1379
01:11:15,731 --> 01:11:19,109
of the first 100 women
to enter her refuge
1380
01:11:19,276 --> 01:11:21,695
were just as violent
as the men they left,
1381
01:11:21,903 --> 01:11:23,530
and violent towards
their children.
1382
01:11:37,919 --> 01:11:39,337
Verbally, and...
1383
01:11:41,798 --> 01:11:42,799
you know, very easily,
1384
01:11:43,008 --> 01:11:44,176
and I've had an argument...
1385
01:11:44,342 --> 01:11:45,844
But the feminists I've met
1386
01:11:46,011 --> 01:11:48,305
have an entirely different take
on domestic violence.
1387
01:11:56,062 --> 01:11:57,773
On the whole issue
of domestic violence...
1388
01:11:57,981 --> 01:11:59,357
That's just another word,
really.
1389
01:11:59,566 --> 01:12:01,985
It's a clean-up word
about wife beating,
1390
01:12:02,194 --> 01:12:03,379
'cause that's really what it is.
1391
01:12:03,403 --> 01:12:05,071
Or "dating violence."
1392
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,574
And it's not girls
that are beating up on boys.
1393
01:12:07,783 --> 01:12:09,409
It's boys that are
beating up on girls
1394
01:12:09,618 --> 01:12:12,162
and using violence
to intimidate and to control.
1395
01:12:12,370 --> 01:12:14,664
And we have very few
1396
01:12:14,873 --> 01:12:16,792
what's called
domestic violence shelters,
1397
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,586
which are places that women
can leave their home
1398
01:12:19,795 --> 01:12:22,005
with their children
and get a new start,
1399
01:12:22,214 --> 01:12:23,465
get out of the violence.
1400
01:12:23,673 --> 01:12:26,092
But they're not nearly
enough of them.
1401
01:12:26,301 --> 01:12:29,095
We need more funding
and more resources
1402
01:12:29,304 --> 01:12:34,392
because it is
a tremendous disadvantage
1403
01:12:34,601 --> 01:12:35,601
for women and girls.
1404
01:12:47,572 --> 01:12:51,827
In 2014,
the coc released a report
1405
01:12:52,035 --> 01:12:56,164
revealing that over
5.4 million men
1406
01:12:56,373 --> 01:12:58,917
and 4.7 million women
1407
01:12:59,125 --> 01:13:02,087
had been victims of intimate
partner physical violence
1408
01:13:02,295 --> 01:13:04,548
within the previous 12 months.
1409
01:13:04,756 --> 01:13:06,132
But then why does the media
1410
01:13:06,341 --> 01:13:09,052
paint domestic violence
as a women's issue?
1411
01:13:09,261 --> 01:13:10,981
Reporter} The world
health organization says
1412
01:13:11,054 --> 01:13:13,640
one in three women
are abused by their partner.
1413
01:13:13,849 --> 01:13:17,435
One in three American women
experiences domestic violence
1414
01:13:17,644 --> 01:13:19,312
or stalking
at some point in her life.
1415
01:13:19,521 --> 01:13:22,232
And when it was
addressed as a men's issue,
1416
01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:25,652
the speaker's point
was that it's a men's issue
1417
01:13:25,861 --> 01:13:27,863
because men are the problem.
1418
01:13:28,071 --> 01:13:29,197
I'm gonna share with you
1419
01:13:29,406 --> 01:13:31,199
a paradigm shifting perspective
1420
01:13:31,408 --> 01:13:32,701
on the issues
of gender violence.
1421
01:13:32,909 --> 01:13:34,269
I don't see these
as women's issues
1422
01:13:34,411 --> 01:13:36,246
that some good men
help out with.
1423
01:13:36,454 --> 01:13:38,474
In fact, I'm gonna argue
that these are men's issues.
1424
01:13:38,498 --> 01:13:40,667
Why is domestic violence
still a big problem
1425
01:13:40,876 --> 01:13:42,752
in the United States
and all over the world?
1426
01:13:42,961 --> 01:13:45,088
What's going on? Why do so
many men abuse physically,
1427
01:13:45,297 --> 01:13:47,257
emotionally, verbally,
and in other ways,
1428
01:13:47,465 --> 01:13:49,065
the women and girls,
and the men and boys
1429
01:13:49,092 --> 01:13:50,093
that they claim to love?
1430
01:13:50,302 --> 01:13:52,888
What's going on with men?
1431
01:13:53,096 --> 01:13:58,476
Let's Grant every single
empirical case as being true.
1432
01:13:58,685 --> 01:14:00,604
Yes, it is true.
Let's just say...
1433
01:14:00,812 --> 01:14:04,190
I mean, it is not true,
but let's just assume
1434
01:14:04,399 --> 01:14:08,278
that there is gender symmetry
in domestic violence,
1435
01:14:08,486 --> 01:14:11,323
that women hit men
as much as men hit women.
1436
01:14:11,531 --> 01:14:13,742
If I were to say that,
i would say,
1437
01:14:13,950 --> 01:14:18,121
therefore,
we need boatloads more funding
1438
01:14:18,330 --> 01:14:20,248
for domestic violence
1439
01:14:20,457 --> 01:14:23,168
to develop shelters
and adequate interventions,
1440
01:14:23,376 --> 01:14:24,736
'cause there's
this hidden epidemic
1441
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:27,714
of men who are being
beaten up by women.
1442
01:14:27,923 --> 01:14:30,926
Or, I could say, as
the men's rights movement do,
1443
01:14:31,134 --> 01:14:32,814
therefore, we shouldn't
have these shelters
1444
01:14:32,969 --> 01:14:35,513
and we shouldn't fund them
because the women are all lying.
1445
01:14:35,722 --> 01:14:40,727
well, it seems to me, that if you
really believe in gender symmetry,
1446
01:14:40,936 --> 01:14:43,146
you're not questioning
the number of women.
1447
01:14:43,355 --> 01:14:44,916
You're just saying
the number of men is...
1448
01:14:44,940 --> 01:14:46,733
You would want to join
with women
1449
01:14:46,942 --> 01:14:48,735
who are antmolence
1450
01:14:48,944 --> 01:14:51,738
to say we have
a real problem here.
1451
01:14:51,947 --> 01:14:53,949
It's not even a gender problem.
1452
01:14:54,157 --> 01:14:56,438
It's a problem of women hitting
men and men hitting women.
1453
01:14:56,534 --> 01:14:59,955
We've gotta get boatloads more funding.
Let's work together.
1454
01:15:00,163 --> 01:15:02,123
That seems the logical
response to this.
1455
01:15:02,332 --> 01:15:04,876
But instead they're saying,
it's like a zero sum game.
1456
01:15:05,085 --> 01:15:09,464
If we fund the women,
then we're gonna ignore the men.
1457
01:15:09,673 --> 01:15:12,175
Well, we're not... we're not
gonna ignore the women,
1458
01:15:12,384 --> 01:15:15,679
'cause we all agree that the
levels are as high as we say.
1459
01:15:18,723 --> 01:15:21,351
[Lkyel but 1t does sound
like a zero sum game
1460
01:15:21,559 --> 01:15:23,979
when only women
are recemng services
1461
01:15:24,187 --> 01:15:28,358
in domestic violence situations.
1462
01:15:28,566 --> 01:15:30,568
And of all the men's rights
actmsts I've met,
1463
01:15:30,777 --> 01:15:33,989
none of them question
the number of female victims.
1464
01:15:34,197 --> 01:15:36,117
But they are calling attention
to the high number
1465
01:15:36,199 --> 01:15:38,159
of male victims
that are being dismissed.
1466
01:15:40,745 --> 01:15:42,747
So why aren't
men's rights actmsts
1467
01:15:42,956 --> 01:15:44,958
and feminists working together?
1468
01:15:47,752 --> 01:15:51,589
Michael kimmel briefly said
something that made me wonder.
1469
01:15:51,798 --> 01:15:55,218
He said it would no longer
be a gender problem
1470
01:15:55,427 --> 01:15:58,346
if both men and women were
equally victims
1471
01:15:58,555 --> 01:16:01,224
of domestic violence.
1472
01:16:01,433 --> 01:16:03,393
Is that why the number
of male victims
1473
01:16:03,601 --> 01:16:05,228
are never addressed?
1474
01:16:08,565 --> 01:16:11,484
To me, it's been fraud
for all these years.
1475
01:16:11,693 --> 01:16:15,822
why is it we have this enormously
powerful feminist movement
1476
01:16:16,031 --> 01:16:18,408
and virtually nothing for men?
1477
01:16:18,616 --> 01:16:21,036
Originally, it was capitalism
1478
01:16:21,244 --> 01:16:23,997
was the big enemy
in the '60s and '70s.
1479
01:16:24,205 --> 01:16:29,044
And 1t was the radical feminists 1n
America that moved the goal post.
1480
01:16:29,252 --> 01:16:31,629
They said, no, it's no longer
capitalism is the enemy.
1481
01:16:31,838 --> 01:16:35,258
The enemy is patriarchy...
Or men.
1482
01:16:39,804 --> 01:16:42,474
And that's how
the women's movement began,
1483
01:16:42,682 --> 01:16:45,018
and it was
enormously successful.
1484
01:16:48,021 --> 01:16:51,066
The new mood in the refuges
1485
01:16:51,274 --> 01:16:53,443
was gonna be that no man
could work in refuges,
1486
01:16:53,651 --> 01:16:54,736
and can't today.
1487
01:16:54,944 --> 01:16:56,321
They can't sit on the boards.
1488
01:16:56,529 --> 01:16:57,864
And boys over 9,
1489
01:16:58,073 --> 01:17:00,533
or possibly 12,
can't so into refuges.
1490
01:17:00,742 --> 01:17:02,285
You call them shelters.
1491
01:17:02,494 --> 01:17:04,472
Their mothers have to make
other arrangements for them,
1492
01:17:04,496 --> 01:17:07,248
which I find shocking.
1493
01:17:07,457 --> 01:17:11,002
And it ring-fenced money.
1494
01:17:11,211 --> 01:17:13,713
I think that
that particular time
1495
01:17:13,922 --> 01:17:16,002
when the feminist movement
were desperate for funding
1496
01:17:16,091 --> 01:17:19,469
'cause they'd run out
of publicity...
1497
01:17:19,636 --> 01:17:20,970
They were desperate for funding
1498
01:17:21,179 --> 01:17:23,473
and they needed a just cause.
1499
01:17:23,681 --> 01:17:26,518
And, unfortunately,
it fell into their laps.
1500
01:17:26,726 --> 01:17:28,686
It's an enormous industry.
1501
01:17:28,895 --> 01:17:31,189
1 mean,
"violence against women,"
1502
01:17:31,356 --> 01:17:32,690
they get something like...
1503
01:17:32,899 --> 01:17:34,901
Well, it's a billion
and over a year.
1504
01:17:35,110 --> 01:17:36,319
Hmm.
1505
01:17:36,528 --> 01:17:38,905
And an awful lot of that
goes on, really,
1506
01:17:39,114 --> 01:17:40,698
supposedly rehabilitating men,
1507
01:17:40,907 --> 01:17:42,325
but essentially punishing them
1508
01:17:42,534 --> 01:17:45,912
with something that's called
the duluth model.
1509
01:17:46,121 --> 01:17:48,361
Duluth power and control.
Well, you guys know about that?
1510
01:17:48,498 --> 01:17:51,334
- No.
- I'll give you a copy.
1511
01:17:51,543 --> 01:17:54,504
In 1977, I think, a bunch of crazy
women up in duluth, Minnesota,
1512
01:17:54,671 --> 01:17:56,923
figured out they had the
solution to domestic violence
1513
01:17:57,132 --> 01:17:59,134
and it was all about patriarchy
1514
01:17:59,342 --> 01:18:01,511
and all about men.
1515
01:18:01,719 --> 01:18:04,139
It's the duluth power
and control wheel,
1516
01:18:04,347 --> 01:18:07,725
'cause men are all about
power and control.
1517
01:18:07,934 --> 01:18:09,394
Of course, not you ladies.
1518
01:18:09,602 --> 01:18:11,146
You guys, you don't
control anything.
1519
01:18:11,354 --> 01:18:12,772
You have no power.
1520
01:18:12,981 --> 01:18:14,542
You're just sweet
and innocent little things.
1521
01:18:14,566 --> 01:18:17,152
Okay, so this power
and control wheel
1522
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:19,195
is dmded up
in all these things,
1523
01:18:19,404 --> 01:18:21,132
you know, about who does
this and who does that,
1524
01:18:21,156 --> 01:18:23,116
and blah, blah, blah.
And of course, it's all men.
1525
01:18:41,342 --> 01:18:44,179
The entire domestic violence
industry was founded on that.
1526
01:18:44,387 --> 01:18:45,430
I think it's still 37
1527
01:18:45,638 --> 01:18:46,973
or 32 states
in the United States
1528
01:18:47,182 --> 01:18:49,392
that by law they have to use
the duluth model
1529
01:18:49,601 --> 01:18:51,311
for batter intervention program.
1530
01:18:51,519 --> 01:18:54,189
It's all shame,
blame, and guilt driven.
1531
01:18:54,397 --> 01:18:55,637
If you're a man and you walk in,
1532
01:18:55,773 --> 01:18:57,400
you must admit
you did it up front
1533
01:18:57,609 --> 01:18:58,985
or you're in denial.
1534
01:18:59,194 --> 01:19:00,862
There's no debate.
There's no discussion.
1535
01:19:01,070 --> 01:19:03,310
There's no possibility that
you could be falsely accused,
1536
01:19:03,489 --> 01:19:05,529
the criminal justice system
could've made a mistake.
1537
01:19:05,700 --> 01:19:07,785
None whatsoever.
You are in a state of denial,
1538
01:19:07,994 --> 01:19:10,205
and you will complete
that course
1539
01:19:10,413 --> 01:19:12,540
or you're gonna go to jail.
1540
01:19:12,749 --> 01:19:15,585
You will be reengineered.
1541
01:19:15,793 --> 01:19:18,171
That's frightening.
1542
01:19:18,379 --> 01:19:20,006
- Frightening?
- Yes, that's frightening.
1543
01:19:20,215 --> 01:19:21,507
I think it's terrifying.
1544
01:19:23,718 --> 01:19:26,512
Absolutely terrifying.
1545
01:19:28,223 --> 01:19:29,743
All I had to do,
i had a simple choice.
1546
01:19:29,807 --> 01:19:31,226
I could just say,
1547
01:19:31,434 --> 01:19:34,229
"yes, you're right.
Men are the enemy."
1548
01:19:34,437 --> 01:19:36,022
No problem.
But I couldn't.
1549
01:19:36,231 --> 01:19:37,774
I absolutely couldn't.
1550
01:19:45,657 --> 01:19:49,035
Just getting overwhelmed,
1551
01:19:49,244 --> 01:19:51,037
because...
1552
01:19:54,791 --> 01:19:57,835
I don't know...
1553
01:19:58,044 --> 01:20:01,256
Where I'm headed
with what I believe,
1554
01:20:01,464 --> 01:20:03,466
and what is right
and what is wrong,
1555
01:20:03,675 --> 01:20:06,219
and who is wrong
and who is right and...
1556
01:20:17,021 --> 01:20:18,421
The truth is somewhere
in the middle
1557
01:20:18,564 --> 01:20:22,277
and that's why
I'm feeling frustrated,
1558
01:20:22,485 --> 01:20:26,489
because...
1559
01:20:26,698 --> 01:20:28,032
I don't know where the truth is,
1560
01:20:28,199 --> 01:20:29,993
and I don't know...
1561
01:20:36,666 --> 01:20:38,668
When I decided to make a film
1562
01:20:38,876 --> 01:20:41,504
on the men's rights movement,
1563
01:20:41,713 --> 01:20:43,506
I never anticipated
1564
01:20:43,715 --> 01:20:46,676
questioning my feminist views.
1565
01:20:46,884 --> 01:20:48,970
But the more mras I met,
1566
01:20:49,178 --> 01:20:50,888
the more I felt compelled
1567
01:20:51,097 --> 01:20:54,309
to remind myself
why I was a feminist.
1568
01:20:57,854 --> 01:21:01,482
I signed up for a women's group.
1569
01:21:01,691 --> 01:21:05,111
Welcome to our “women, own
your power“ workshop.
1570
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:10,658
Only four percent of the fortune
50d companies are led by women.
1571
01:21:10,867 --> 01:21:14,704
Women only hold about 14°/o
1572
01:21:14,871 --> 01:21:17,081
of corporate executive positions
1573
01:21:17,290 --> 01:21:22,337
and less than 20°/o of
our governmental positions.
1574
01:21:22,545 --> 01:21:24,589
I made video diaries complaining
1575
01:21:24,797 --> 01:21:26,549
about how I had
to change what I wore
1576
01:21:26,758 --> 01:21:28,051
to walk alone at night,
1577
01:21:28,217 --> 01:21:32,096
how much time it took me
to get ready for work,
1578
01:21:32,305 --> 01:21:34,766
all the housekeeping
that was on my shoulders.
1579
01:21:34,932 --> 01:21:36,726
In comparison
to other gender issues,
1580
01:21:36,934 --> 01:21:38,811
these videos seem trmal,
1581
01:21:39,020 --> 01:21:41,939
but I made them nonetheless.
1582
01:21:42,148 --> 01:21:45,109
I attended
women's rights rallies.
1583
01:21:45,318 --> 01:21:46,486
No to violence.
1584
01:21:46,694 --> 01:21:48,488
That's what we are here for,
1585
01:21:48,696 --> 01:21:51,866
to say no more
to violence in any form,
1586
01:21:52,075 --> 01:21:54,369
especially against women
and girls.
1587
01:21:59,082 --> 01:22:01,167
I repeated
women's issues in my head
1588
01:22:01,376 --> 01:22:03,294
like a broken record...
1589
01:22:03,503 --> 01:22:04,921
Female genital mutilation,
1590
01:22:05,129 --> 01:22:06,839
sex trafficking,
reproductive rights,
1591
01:22:07,048 --> 01:22:09,217
maternity leave,
1592
01:22:09,425 --> 01:22:12,637
and social media helped
remind me of women's issues.
1593
01:22:12,845 --> 01:22:17,183
We have fought for everybody's
else's equal rights.
1594
01:22:17,392 --> 01:22:22,146
It's our time to have wage
equality once and for all,
1595
01:22:22,355 --> 01:22:24,190
and equal rights for women
1596
01:22:24,399 --> 01:22:26,150
in the United States of America.
1597
01:22:28,152 --> 01:22:31,614
We are struggling
for a uniting word.
1598
01:22:31,823 --> 01:22:33,408
But the good news is
1599
01:22:33,616 --> 01:22:37,203
that we have a uniting movement.
1600
01:22:37,412 --> 01:22:39,038
It is called "he for she."
1601
01:22:48,798 --> 01:22:52,635
Whenever I hear
the mras' point of view
1602
01:22:52,844 --> 01:22:54,637
about how difficult
it is for them,
1603
01:22:54,846 --> 01:22:57,265
I immediately go to,
1604
01:22:57,473 --> 01:23:00,184
well, what about us?
What is like for us?
1605
01:23:00,393 --> 01:23:01,811
And then I get on the defensive
1606
01:23:02,019 --> 01:23:03,771
and want to make sure
1607
01:23:03,980 --> 01:23:07,817
that women's struggles
are also heard.
1608
01:23:08,025 --> 01:23:11,237
And I don't know
if that's necessary,
1609
01:23:11,446 --> 01:23:13,698
because the mras are saying that
1610
01:23:13,906 --> 01:23:18,244
the feminist perspective
is the mainstream perspective.
1611
01:23:18,453 --> 01:23:20,413
But even when I hear
their issues,
1612
01:23:20,621 --> 01:23:22,101
I still want to speak up
for the women
1613
01:23:22,206 --> 01:23:24,667
because I feel like...
I don't know.
1614
01:23:24,876 --> 01:23:27,003
I feel like talking
about one gender's issues
1615
01:23:27,211 --> 01:23:28,671
now neglects the other,
1616
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:30,880
and I guess that's what
mras have been dealing with
1617
01:23:30,923 --> 01:23:32,403
is always hearing
about women's issues
1618
01:23:32,467 --> 01:23:34,187
and feeling like
their issues are neglected.
1619
01:23:34,302 --> 01:23:36,471
But whenever 1 hear them
talk about men's issues,
1620
01:23:36,679 --> 01:23:38,681
I feel like I need to
stand up for women and say,
1621
01:23:38,890 --> 01:23:39,682
"this is what
we're dealing with,
1622
01:23:39,891 --> 01:23:42,268
an equal opposite."
1623
01:23:46,647 --> 01:23:48,858
1 met with men's rights
actmst Karen straughan
1624
01:23:49,066 --> 01:23:52,028
late one night in a noisy bar.
1625
01:23:52,236 --> 01:23:55,031
She became well known
for her YouTube videos
1626
01:23:55,239 --> 01:23:56,866
talking about male disposability
1627
01:23:57,074 --> 01:23:59,285
and other men's rights issues,
1628
01:23:59,494 --> 01:24:02,038
and she's a honey badger.
1629
01:24:02,246 --> 01:24:03,331
Part of what I do,
1630
01:24:03,539 --> 01:24:04,850
what I research,
and what I think about
1631
01:24:04,874 --> 01:24:08,085
is the reason psychologically
1632
01:24:08,294 --> 01:24:10,838
why feminism seems to be
1633
01:24:11,047 --> 01:24:14,091
such a comfortable
warm blanket emotionally
1634
01:24:14,300 --> 01:24:17,803
for so many people,
men and women alike.
1635
01:24:18,012 --> 01:24:22,892
And it's so comfortable
1636
01:24:23,100 --> 01:24:26,103
that it will make them
not see things
1637
01:24:26,312 --> 01:24:27,813
that are right in front
of their face.
1638
01:24:28,022 --> 01:24:30,107
Look at boko haram.
1639
01:24:30,316 --> 01:24:33,528
Hundreds 0f young
girls fast asleep in their beds
1640
01:24:33,736 --> 01:24:35,988
are awakened
by the sound of gunfire.
1641
01:24:36,197 --> 01:24:38,157
Armed attackers have stormed
their boarding school
1642
01:24:38,324 --> 01:24:40,701
and set fire to dozens
of buildings.
1643
01:24:40,910 --> 01:24:44,705
Nearly 300 of them are dragged from
their dorm, loaded on to trucks,
1644
01:24:44,914 --> 01:24:46,999
and carried away
deep into the forest.
1645
01:24:47,208 --> 01:24:49,311
Mevoanaa} ...From New York
to London rallied yesterday
1646
01:24:49,335 --> 01:24:53,631
demanding that the terrorist group
boko haram bring back our girls.
1647
01:24:53,839 --> 01:24:56,175
It just gets to the core of you.
1648
01:24:56,384 --> 01:24:58,261
This unconscionable act
1649
01:24:58,427 --> 01:25:00,680
was committed
by a terrorist group
1650
01:25:00,888 --> 01:25:03,808
determined to keep these girls
from getting an education.
1651
01:25:04,016 --> 01:25:08,771
And what happened in Nigeria
was not an isolated incident.
1652
01:25:08,980 --> 01:25:11,983
It is a story we see every day,
1653
01:25:12,191 --> 01:25:14,569
as girls around the world
risk their lives
1654
01:25:14,777 --> 01:25:16,946
to pursue their ambitions.
1655
01:25:17,154 --> 01:25:19,824
I mean, you must have heard
about all of that, right?
1656
01:25:20,032 --> 01:25:23,953
That's being spun as a
fundamentalist islamic group
1657
01:25:24,161 --> 01:25:27,540
that is so determined
to be misogynistic
1658
01:25:27,748 --> 01:25:28,958
and oppress girls
1659
01:25:29,166 --> 01:25:31,252
that they want to
deny girls an education.
1660
01:25:31,460 --> 01:25:34,797
But they are not against
girls being educated.
1661
01:25:35,006 --> 01:25:40,303
They're against anybody getting a
western secular or Christian education.
1662
01:25:40,511 --> 01:25:42,847
The initial attacks,
and there were several of them,
1663
01:25:43,055 --> 01:25:45,600
there was one... there were
over a hundred men killed
1664
01:25:45,808 --> 01:25:47,727
and one woman killed.
1665
01:25:47,935 --> 01:25:51,731
And the victims were
described as "people," right?
1666
01:25:51,939 --> 01:25:53,566
Or "villagers."
1667
01:25:53,774 --> 01:25:57,820
And in the previous attacks
on the schools,
1668
01:25:58,029 --> 01:26:00,406
they actually let the girls go.
1669
01:26:00,615 --> 01:26:03,409
They separated out
the boys and the girls
1670
01:26:03,618 --> 01:26:06,203
and they let the girls go,
and they told them,
1671
01:26:06,412 --> 01:26:09,582
"go home, get married,
1672
01:26:09,790 --> 01:26:11,792
renounce your sins,
1673
01:26:12,001 --> 01:26:15,630
and live a righteous life
under Allah," right?
1674
01:26:15,838 --> 01:26:18,633
And then they burned
the boys alive.
1675
01:26:18,841 --> 01:26:21,427
There was literally no outrage.
1676
01:26:21,636 --> 01:26:23,471
It was barely reported on.
1677
01:26:23,679 --> 01:26:26,033
It was one of those things, there
was no opinion pieces on it,
1678
01:26:26,057 --> 01:26:27,433
no nothing, right?
1679
01:26:27,642 --> 01:26:30,436
Until the girls were kidnapped.
1680
01:26:30,645 --> 01:26:31,854
And look at it this way,
1681
01:26:32,063 --> 01:26:34,023
because we played right
into their hands.
1682
01:26:34,231 --> 01:26:36,442
Because they
want attention, right?
1683
01:26:36,651 --> 01:26:40,237
And they weren't getting any
attention from the western media
1684
01:26:40,446 --> 01:26:42,365
when they were
just slaughtering boys.
1685
01:26:42,573 --> 01:26:44,450
- Yeah.
- Right?
1686
01:26:44,659 --> 01:26:46,118
They want attention.
1687
01:26:46,327 --> 01:26:48,245
And what do they do?
They kidnap girls
1688
01:26:48,454 --> 01:26:51,207
and sell them into
marriage or slavery, right?
1689
01:26:51,415 --> 01:26:54,251
And everybody... the U.N.,
1690
01:26:54,460 --> 01:26:56,796
Michelle Obama, Barack Obama,
1691
01:26:57,004 --> 01:27:00,466
the U.K. Government, the Canadian
federal minister of defense,
1692
01:27:00,675 --> 01:27:03,469
they're all promising aid
and help and equipment
1693
01:27:03,678 --> 01:27:07,056
and personnel to help find these
girls and bring them back,
1694
01:27:07,264 --> 01:27:08,808
because this is such an outrage,
1695
01:27:09,016 --> 01:27:11,310
and, "oh, my goodness,
something needs to be done."
1696
01:27:11,519 --> 01:27:15,314
Well, maybe if, like, last year,
1697
01:27:15,523 --> 01:27:17,483
maybe if we did something then,
1698
01:27:17,692 --> 01:27:22,863
all of these girls would be safe
1n their dorms right now, right?
1699
01:27:23,072 --> 01:27:24,365
But we didn't.
1700
01:27:24,573 --> 01:27:26,701
And the reason why
they kidnapped those girls
1701
01:27:26,909 --> 01:27:28,661
is because we didn't
do anything.
1702
01:27:28,869 --> 01:27:32,873
We didn't pay attention,
and they want attention.
1703
01:27:33,082 --> 01:27:35,918
And they know that
attacking girls or women
1704
01:27:36,127 --> 01:27:38,713
is gonna get them attention.
1705
01:27:38,921 --> 01:27:42,591
What are we gonna do? Start a
campaign, “bring back our boys“?
1706
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:46,929
Oh, wait, they're dead.
Never mind, right?
1707
01:27:47,138 --> 01:27:50,307
The men...
The people in boko haram,
1708
01:27:50,516 --> 01:27:52,685
they're chivalrous.
1709
01:27:52,893 --> 01:27:54,520
If those girls were boys,
1710
01:27:54,729 --> 01:27:56,313
they wouldn't be
getting education,
1711
01:27:56,522 --> 01:27:58,858
they'd be dead.
1712
01:27:59,066 --> 01:28:00,386
They wouldn't be sold
into slavery
1713
01:28:00,526 --> 01:28:04,321
with the hope of escape.
They'd be dead.
1714
01:28:04,530 --> 01:28:05,906
Boko haram has been fighting
1715
01:28:06,115 --> 01:28:09,910
for islamic rule
in Nigeria since 2002.
1716
01:28:10,119 --> 01:28:12,288
Its members have killed
hundreds of people.
1717
01:28:25,926 --> 01:28:27,553
♪ Finally, brother,
after a while...
1718
01:28:27,762 --> 01:28:29,138
At least 69 dead,
1719
01:28:29,346 --> 01:28:31,766
although some reports put
the number at about 150
1720
01:28:31,974 --> 01:28:34,685
and scores more injured.
1721
01:28:34,894 --> 01:28:39,148
♪ For that day when we shall
lay down our burden
1722
01:28:39,356 --> 01:28:44,153
♪ and study war no more
1723
01:28:44,361 --> 01:28:48,783
♪ finally, brother,
after a while
1724
01:28:48,991 --> 01:28:52,787
♪ the battle will be over
1725
01:28:52,995 --> 01:28:57,583
♪ for that day when we shall
lay down our burden
1726
01:28:57,792 --> 01:29:02,379
♪ and study war no more
1727
01:29:02,588 --> 01:29:07,009
♪ finally, brother,
after a while
1728
01:29:07,218 --> 01:29:11,180
♪ the battle will be over
1729
01:29:11,388 --> 01:29:15,810
♪ for that day when we shall
lay down our burden
1730
01:29:16,018 --> 01:29:20,606
♪ and study war no more
1731
01:29:20,815 --> 01:29:25,194
♪ finally, brother,
after a while
1732
01:29:25,361 --> 01:29:29,406
♪ the battle will be over
1733
01:29:29,615 --> 01:29:34,036
♪ for that day when we shall
lay down our burden
1734
01:29:34,245 --> 01:29:38,833
♪ and study war no more
1735
01:29:39,041 --> 01:29:43,629
♪ finally, brother,
after a while
1736
01:29:43,838 --> 01:29:47,633
♪ the battle will be over
1737
01:29:47,842 --> 01:29:52,221
♪ for that day when we should
lay down our burden
1738
01:29:52,429 --> 01:29:55,808
♪ and study war no more
1739
01:29:59,562 --> 01:30:02,064
one of the most important things
the men's movement is doing
1740
01:30:02,273 --> 01:30:06,235
is being able to say
men need compassion
1741
01:30:06,443 --> 01:30:09,363
and men deserve compassion.
1742
01:30:09,572 --> 01:30:11,657
And to have that happen,
1743
01:30:11,866 --> 01:30:14,201
I'm not expecting it
in my lifetime.
1744
01:30:16,036 --> 01:30:18,372
It's an ocean of pain out there.
1745
01:30:18,581 --> 01:30:21,876
This stuff we're talking about
1746
01:30:22,084 --> 01:30:25,921
has been going on for so long,
1747
01:30:26,130 --> 01:30:30,885
and nobody listens,
nobody cares.
1748
01:30:31,093 --> 01:30:36,473
It's one thing when you look
at what happens to women
1749
01:30:36,682 --> 01:30:39,560
and you feel normal
healthy outrage about it,
1750
01:30:39,768 --> 01:30:41,437
and that should happen.
1751
01:30:41,645 --> 01:30:43,081
But when you can look at
what's happening
1752
01:30:43,105 --> 01:30:44,607
in our courts to men,
1753
01:30:44,815 --> 01:30:46,901
in our medical
establishment to men,
1754
01:30:47,109 --> 01:30:48,903
in our schools to men,
1755
01:30:49,111 --> 01:30:51,947
and yet we remain
so cerebral about all of it,
1756
01:30:52,114 --> 01:30:55,910
yes, well, that is certainly
something to consider.
1757
01:30:56,118 --> 01:30:59,038
If it were happening
to any other group,
1758
01:30:59,246 --> 01:31:02,207
we would be having protests
from coast to coast.
1759
01:31:02,416 --> 01:31:05,419
And the fact is that
it is happening to men
1760
01:31:05,628 --> 01:31:07,922
every day right
in front of our eyes,
1761
01:31:08,130 --> 01:31:11,300
and people will get angry at you
if you try to talk about it.
1762
01:31:11,508 --> 01:31:14,136
That's how deep
the prejudice runs.
1763
01:31:14,345 --> 01:31:15,888
♪ No more
1764
01:31:18,098 --> 01:31:20,643
but there have been protests,
1765
01:31:20,851 --> 01:31:24,521
not with the intention of
shining light on men's issues,
1766
01:31:24,730 --> 01:31:26,941
but rather with
the goal of silencing
1767
01:31:27,149 --> 01:31:30,736
any discussion of men's issues.
1768
01:31:30,945 --> 01:31:32,529
Like at Ottawa university,
1769
01:31:32,738 --> 01:31:35,574
when professor Janice flamengo
attempted to give a lecture
1770
01:31:35,783 --> 01:31:38,786
that questioned
the feminist narrative.
1771
01:31:38,994 --> 01:31:40,329
We'll take a moment
1772
01:31:40,496 --> 01:31:44,792
until we enforce
some decorum in the room.
1773
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:46,961
So you think this is a victory?
1774
01:31:47,169 --> 01:31:48,545
What are you so frightened of...
1775
01:31:48,754 --> 01:31:50,339
Yeah, why are you so frightened
1776
01:31:50,506 --> 01:31:53,759
of hearing an opinion
different from your own?
1777
01:31:53,968 --> 01:31:56,011
Then there was the first
international conference
1778
01:31:56,220 --> 01:31:59,306
on men's issues in Michigan,
1779
01:31:59,515 --> 01:32:01,850
where even "Ms. magazine"
urged its readers
1780
01:32:02,059 --> 01:32:05,229
to protest the conference
in hopes of shutting it down.
1781
01:32:18,951 --> 01:32:21,370
But perhaps the most
well known protest
1782
01:32:21,578 --> 01:32:23,455
of a pro men's rights event
1783
01:32:23,664 --> 01:32:27,876
happened in April, 2013,
at the university of Toronto,
1784
01:32:28,085 --> 01:32:30,212
when the Canadian
association for equality
1785
01:32:30,421 --> 01:32:32,589
hosted a discussion titled
1786
01:32:32,798 --> 01:32:37,011
"from misogyny and misandry
to intersexual dialogue."
1787
01:32:51,984 --> 01:32:54,028
Fuck the patriarchy!
1788
01:32:56,822 --> 01:32:58,824
Women hold up half the sky!
1789
01:33:01,035 --> 01:33:03,037
Women hold up half the sky!
1790
01:33:04,997 --> 01:33:06,707
Women hold up half the sky!
1791
01:33:09,251 --> 01:33:11,837
Women hold up half the sky!
1792
01:33:13,839 --> 01:33:16,467
A feminist group
protesting the event
1793
01:33:16,675 --> 01:33:18,260
illegally pulled the fire alarm
1794
01:33:18,469 --> 01:33:20,721
and successfully
shut down the event.
1795
01:33:31,023 --> 01:33:34,860
Okay, let's go.
We got a fire alarm!
1796
01:33:35,069 --> 01:33:36,695
Once outside the lecture hall,
1797
01:33:36,904 --> 01:33:39,364
feminist protesters
and men's rights actmsts
1798
01:33:39,573 --> 01:33:42,451
got to speak face to face.
1799
01:33:42,659 --> 01:33:44,661
So, number one.
Number one!
1800
01:33:44,870 --> 01:33:47,873
Shut the fuck up for a second.
1801
01:33:48,082 --> 01:33:51,043
Feminists do not want you to
lose custody of your children.
1802
01:33:51,251 --> 01:33:53,962
The assumption that women
are naturally better caregivers
1803
01:33:54,171 --> 01:33:56,757
is part of patriarchy.
1804
01:33:56,965 --> 01:33:58,467
Feminists do not like
commercials
1805
01:33:58,675 --> 01:34:00,594
in which bumbling dads
mess up the laundry
1806
01:34:00,803 --> 01:34:03,347
and competent wives have
to bustle in and fix it.
1807
01:34:03,555 --> 01:34:07,935
The assumption that women...
This is a list
1808
01:34:08,143 --> 01:34:09,978
of the things
that we're working toward.
1809
01:34:10,187 --> 01:34:11,897
Now if you would
shut the fuck up
1810
01:34:12,106 --> 01:34:13,899
for the 50th billionth time...
1811
01:34:14,108 --> 01:34:15,502
These are things
we agree on, actually.
1812
01:34:15,526 --> 01:34:17,903
These are things
that we're agreeing on,
1813
01:34:18,112 --> 01:34:21,323
and these are things you've all
got skewed fucking views on.
1814
01:34:21,532 --> 01:34:24,326
You think that feminists are trying
to take away your fucking rights,
1815
01:34:24,535 --> 01:34:26,703
but as a matter of fact,
what we're trying to do
1816
01:34:26,912 --> 01:34:29,057
1s we're actually trying to work on the
same things that you're working on,
1817
01:34:29,081 --> 01:34:30,624
except the fact
that you're so...
1818
01:34:30,833 --> 01:34:32,334
You're just too busy
hating women...
1819
01:34:32,543 --> 01:34:34,461
You're a fucking hate group.
1820
01:34:34,670 --> 01:34:36,272
You can't see we're trying to
work on those same situations.
1821
01:34:36,296 --> 01:34:38,966
Are you conflating feminism,
which is an ideology,
1822
01:34:39,174 --> 01:34:41,885
with women, which is
a demographic of society?
1823
01:34:42,094 --> 01:34:43,446
Okay, mister
derailing for dummies.
1824
01:34:43,470 --> 01:34:45,070
So, really, your hatred
is for feminists.
1825
01:34:45,139 --> 01:34:47,808
- You're still a hate group.
- An ideology, yes.
1826
01:34:48,016 --> 01:34:49,536
I hate also hate
a lot of other "isms".
1827
01:34:49,643 --> 01:34:51,436
- So you admit, though.
- Racism, sexism.
1828
01:34:51,645 --> 01:34:53,147
Oh, bullshit, bullshit.
1829
01:34:53,355 --> 01:34:55,357
Bullshit, you hate sexism,
but you're an mra.
1830
01:34:55,566 --> 01:34:57,943
Okay, no. Point taken.
We... like, we win.
1831
01:34:58,152 --> 01:34:59,712
You obviously haven't read
our literature.
1832
01:34:59,736 --> 01:35:01,238
Sorry. Okay!
1833
01:35:01,446 --> 01:35:03,532
You don't actually work
on anything.
1834
01:35:03,740 --> 01:35:05,620
You're creating any change
in the fucking world.
1835
01:35:05,701 --> 01:35:07,061
Your website,
your fucking website,
1836
01:35:07,161 --> 01:35:08,579
the hate website
against feminists...
1837
01:35:08,787 --> 01:35:10,014
You're not actually
creating any change.
1838
01:35:10,038 --> 01:35:12,541
Feminists do not want you
1839
01:35:12,749 --> 01:35:14,168
to have to make
alimony payments.
1840
01:35:14,376 --> 01:35:16,503
Alimony is set up
to combat the fact
1841
01:35:16,712 --> 01:35:18,352
that women have been
historically expected
1842
01:35:18,380 --> 01:35:21,175
to prioritize domestic duties
over professional goals,
1843
01:35:21,383 --> 01:35:22,968
thus minimizing
their earning potential
1844
01:35:23,177 --> 01:35:24,553
if their traditional
marriages end.
1845
01:35:24,761 --> 01:35:26,597
I'm right here.
You don't have to yell.
1846
01:35:26,805 --> 01:35:28,974
I'm reading, fuckface.
1847
01:35:29,183 --> 01:35:30,994
- It's for the fucking camera.
- I'm trying to fucking...
1848
01:35:31,018 --> 01:35:33,187
I'm letting everyone else
hear it, okay?
1849
01:35:33,395 --> 01:35:35,647
It's not just for you,
mister entitled.
1850
01:35:35,856 --> 01:35:38,192
The assumption
that wives should...
1851
01:35:38,400 --> 01:35:40,611
Why do you think
the men's rights movement
1852
01:35:40,777 --> 01:35:42,905
is at odds with feminism?
1853
01:35:43,113 --> 01:35:46,450
What has created that clash,
that war between each other?
1854
01:35:46,658 --> 01:35:50,787
Well, one, feminism
has spent the last 5o years
1855
01:35:50,954 --> 01:35:54,124
demonizing men, which 1s
sort of one of the problems.
1856
01:35:54,333 --> 01:35:56,793
Feminist scholars
have characterized men
1857
01:35:57,002 --> 01:35:59,296
as inherently violent,
inherently bad,
1858
01:35:59,504 --> 01:36:02,132
inherently predatory,
inherently oppressive.
1859
01:36:02,341 --> 01:36:05,761
They have postulated that
masculinity is a disease.
1860
01:36:05,969 --> 01:36:09,306
Feminists aren't
the only problem.
1861
01:36:09,514 --> 01:36:11,516
The problems didn't start
with feminism.
1862
01:36:11,725 --> 01:36:13,810
So when I start
criticizing feminism,
1863
01:36:14,019 --> 01:36:19,233
1 want you to know you're
just part of the problem.
1864
01:36:19,441 --> 01:36:20,859
They're just part
of the problem.
1865
01:36:21,068 --> 01:36:23,820
You calling men oppressors
1866
01:36:24,029 --> 01:36:27,449
and women oppressed
demonizes men,
1867
01:36:27,658 --> 01:36:30,619
and I believe diminishes
women at the same time.
1868
01:36:30,786 --> 01:36:32,663
It's a way of telling men
to shut up.
1869
01:36:32,871 --> 01:36:34,081
It's a way of telling men
1870
01:36:34,289 --> 01:36:35,791
that their experiences
don't matter.
1871
01:36:35,999 --> 01:36:37,960
You tell a man he's prmleged,
1872
01:36:38,168 --> 01:36:40,337
therefore, anything
he's gone through
1873
01:36:40,545 --> 01:36:42,464
or anything he has to say
doesn't matter.
1874
01:36:42,673 --> 01:36:44,258
His lived experiences
don't matter
1875
01:36:44,466 --> 01:36:45,676
because he's prmleged.
1876
01:36:49,638 --> 01:36:52,516
So how old were you when you started
calling yourself a feminist?
1877
01:36:52,724 --> 01:36:54,851
Or how many years ago?
1878
01:36:55,060 --> 01:36:59,064
It was probably, about three
years agc, I guess you can say.
1879
01:36:59,273 --> 01:37:01,775
I'm relatively new, yeah.
1880
01:37:01,984 --> 01:37:04,278
But I'm pretty loud, so...
1881
01:37:04,486 --> 01:37:07,447
Silence only helps the
oppressor, not the oppressed.
1882
01:37:07,656 --> 01:37:09,283
A lot of mras say that feminism
1883
01:37:09,491 --> 01:37:11,493
doesn't fight
for the rights of men.
1884
01:37:11,702 --> 01:37:13,078
What would you say to that?
1885
01:37:13,287 --> 01:37:15,247
Cry me a river, really,
1886
01:37:15,455 --> 01:37:17,624
because feminism is a movement
1887
01:37:17,833 --> 01:37:19,960
about the discrepancies
1888
01:37:20,168 --> 01:37:23,714
when it comes
to women's equality.
1889
01:37:23,922 --> 01:37:26,800
Because we're not up.
We're still not there yet.
1890
01:37:27,009 --> 01:37:30,304
You know, don't even
start with that whole
1891
01:37:30,512 --> 01:37:32,282
"oh, but you don't think
about the men's issue."
1892
01:37:32,306 --> 01:37:33,765
Well, then you know what?
1893
01:37:33,974 --> 01:37:36,101
Start your own goddamn
movement, which they have,
1894
01:37:36,310 --> 01:37:39,396
but maybe make 1t a little
more about legitimate issues
1895
01:37:39,604 --> 01:37:41,690
like custody and alimony
1896
01:37:41,898 --> 01:37:43,900
and things that
you think are unequal,
1897
01:37:44,109 --> 01:37:45,986
which all stem from patriarchy,
1898
01:37:46,194 --> 01:37:48,030
not from, "oh, my god,
1899
01:37:48,238 --> 01:37:50,699
feminists are trying
to take away our kids."
1900
01:37:50,866 --> 01:37:52,534
No, dipshit.
1901
01:37:52,743 --> 01:37:54,202
That's not what
we're trying to do.
1902
01:37:54,411 --> 01:37:55,746
We're not trying to do that.
1903
01:37:55,912 --> 01:37:58,790
I mean, if they look
at the root causes of why,
1904
01:37:58,999 --> 01:38:04,546
for example, women get custody
more often than men do,
1905
01:38:04,755 --> 01:38:06,465
women are supposed to
be the mothers.
1906
01:38:06,673 --> 01:38:08,800
They're supposed to be
the natural born caregivers.
1907
01:38:09,009 --> 01:38:11,553
So, obviously, duh,
you has a vagina,
1908
01:38:11,762 --> 01:38:14,723
so, obviously, you're gonna be
able to take care of the kiddies.
1909
01:38:14,931 --> 01:38:16,350
That's really what it is.
1910
01:38:16,558 --> 01:38:18,935
It all stems from
sexism against women.
1911
01:38:19,144 --> 01:38:24,358
It's just, the oppression
dialectic needs to go.
1912
01:38:24,566 --> 01:38:28,153
It's so hard to convince people
1913
01:38:28,362 --> 01:38:30,864
to look at men's rights
actmsm and support it
1914
01:38:31,073 --> 01:38:35,118
without first allowing them
to at least escape
1915
01:38:35,327 --> 01:38:39,915
the stranglehold that
feminism has on their minds.
1916
01:38:40,123 --> 01:38:43,668
I do believe it is dogma.
It's zealotry.
1917
01:38:43,877 --> 01:38:46,922
There are good people
in the feminist movement.
1918
01:38:48,757 --> 01:38:50,592
Um...
1919
01:38:50,801 --> 01:38:51,843
There are not good people
1920
01:38:52,052 --> 01:38:53,553
in the radical
feminist movement.
1921
01:38:55,555 --> 01:38:58,975
Um...
1922
01:38:59,184 --> 01:39:01,395
That system is based on hate,
1923
01:39:01,603 --> 01:39:03,605
and hate... in my opinion,
1924
01:39:03,814 --> 01:39:05,982
hate's the most destructive
force in the world.
1925
01:39:06,191 --> 01:39:08,527
They're so quick to call us
1926
01:39:08,735 --> 01:39:10,779
man-haters or misandrists.
1927
01:39:10,946 --> 01:39:13,198
Misandry for life.
No.
1928
01:39:13,407 --> 01:39:14,616
They're so quick to say that,
1929
01:39:14,825 --> 01:39:16,493
when all we're doing
is talking about
1930
01:39:16,701 --> 01:39:18,954
patriarchal societies
and structures
1931
01:39:19,162 --> 01:39:22,374
that we want to dismantle.
1932
01:39:22,624 --> 01:39:24,626
Nothing against men
in particular,
1933
01:39:24,835 --> 01:39:27,116
but just saying, hey, this is
the system that we live in
1934
01:39:27,212 --> 01:39:28,797
and this puts men above women.
1935
01:39:29,005 --> 01:39:30,799
And it's not necessarily
their fault,
1936
01:39:30,966 --> 01:39:33,009
but, hey, recognize
what's happening here
1937
01:39:33,218 --> 01:39:35,220
and let's work together
to dismantle it.
1938
01:39:35,429 --> 01:39:39,224
The omnipotent,
ever-present patriarchy,
1939
01:39:39,433 --> 01:39:42,811
the invisible force that directs
1940
01:39:43,019 --> 01:39:45,272
all of our lives, right?
1941
01:39:45,480 --> 01:39:49,025
And causes all oppression
and all suffering, right?
1942
01:39:49,234 --> 01:39:51,528
Our devil.
1943
01:39:51,736 --> 01:39:56,366
And the beautiful,
wonderful force for justice...
1944
01:39:56,575 --> 01:39:59,035
Feminism, the way.
1945
01:39:59,244 --> 01:40:01,538
It's the way.
1946
01:40:01,746 --> 01:40:05,083
It sounds like religion.
It sounds like religion.
1947
01:40:08,420 --> 01:40:09,671
And, oh, my goodness,
1948
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:12,591
for a moment that's only
about equality
1949
01:40:12,799 --> 01:40:14,259
and isn't blaming of men,
1950
01:40:14,468 --> 01:40:17,053
they named the force
for evil after men
1951
01:40:17,262 --> 01:40:19,389
and the force for justice
after women.
1952
01:41:07,687 --> 01:41:09,898
They're really angry,
and they're angry at women,
1953
01:41:10,106 --> 01:41:12,192
they're angry at feminist women.
1954
01:41:12,400 --> 01:41:16,112
Yes, men have gotten
a crappy deal,
1955
01:41:16,321 --> 01:41:19,407
but it's not the fault
of women or gay people.
1956
01:41:19,616 --> 01:41:23,119
when feminism says that they
have no part in any of this,
1957
01:41:23,328 --> 01:41:26,081
I think they're not
being honest about it.
1958
01:41:26,289 --> 01:41:28,333
I don't blame feminism
for all of it,
1959
01:41:28,542 --> 01:41:30,544
but I think they've had
a role in it.
1960
01:41:30,752 --> 01:41:32,921
They've written laws
that discriminate against men.
1961
01:41:33,129 --> 01:41:35,131
They've fought
to protect those laws,
1962
01:41:35,340 --> 01:41:37,551
particularly
in domestic violence areas.
1963
01:41:37,759 --> 01:41:40,929
And for many, many years,
second wave feminism
1964
01:41:41,096 --> 01:41:42,556
would go through the statutes
1965
01:41:42,764 --> 01:41:44,933
and change everything
that was gender specific
1966
01:41:45,141 --> 01:41:46,643
to something gender neutral
1967
01:41:46,851 --> 01:41:48,611
unless it was something
that benefited women,
1968
01:41:48,770 --> 01:41:50,146
like the domestic violence laws.
1969
01:41:50,355 --> 01:41:52,232
They didn't change those.
1970
01:41:52,440 --> 01:41:54,568
Other types of areas,
like fathers in prison,
1971
01:41:54,776 --> 01:41:57,571
there are statutes that specifically
give mothers certain benefits
1972
01:41:57,779 --> 01:42:00,156
that fathers in prison
don't have.
1973
01:42:00,365 --> 01:42:01,759
And I challenged that
as well, legally,
1974
01:42:01,783 --> 01:42:03,076
but we didn't win on that one.
1975
01:42:03,285 --> 01:42:05,036
When I wanted to get
a commission on men
1976
01:42:05,245 --> 01:42:06,885
like the county has
a commission on women,
1977
01:42:07,038 --> 01:42:10,166
the feminists fought that
tooth and nail.
1978
01:42:10,375 --> 01:42:13,962
When prop 209 was before
the California voters,
1979
01:42:14,170 --> 01:42:16,089
which was to end
affirmative action,
1980
01:42:16,298 --> 01:42:20,594
every feminist
organization opposed it.
1981
01:42:20,802 --> 01:42:22,846
Every time men's rights groups
1982
01:42:23,054 --> 01:42:25,599
try to pass
joint custody legislation,
1983
01:42:25,807 --> 01:42:27,601
feminist groups fight them.
1984
01:42:27,809 --> 01:42:30,061
They fought us
on paternity fraud.
1985
01:42:30,270 --> 01:42:33,148
The biggest opposition
that I have faced
1986
01:42:33,356 --> 01:42:35,984
has been from the radical
feminists that said,
1987
01:42:36,151 --> 01:42:38,403
"we don't want truth
to be the standard."
1988
01:42:38,612 --> 01:42:41,197
Because if we did,
they wouldn't oppose
1989
01:42:41,406 --> 01:42:43,408
automatic DNA testing at birth.
1990
01:42:43,617 --> 01:42:46,202
And in countries like France,
1991
01:42:46,411 --> 01:42:50,332
they're saying, "well,
DNA should mean 'do not ask,"'
1992
01:42:50,540 --> 01:42:54,002
'cause it's now illegal
to even get a test.
1993
01:42:54,210 --> 01:42:58,089
And if you get a test without
the mother's permission,
1994
01:42:58,298 --> 01:42:59,924
you will be
criminally prosecuted.
1995
01:43:03,178 --> 01:43:06,556
In sweden, they
tried to create a man tax.
1996
01:43:06,765 --> 01:43:09,225
In India, the men's rights
movement is trying to get
1997
01:43:09,434 --> 01:43:12,854
the rape laws
to include male victims,
1998
01:43:13,063 --> 01:43:16,441
and the feminist groups
apparently are fighting that.
1999
01:43:16,650 --> 01:43:18,860
I'm not saying
all feminists are this way.
2000
01:43:19,069 --> 01:43:23,448
But I think the ones who
are affecting public policy,
2001
01:43:23,657 --> 01:43:26,534
who have the lobbying power,
i think they are.
2002
01:43:26,743 --> 01:43:28,662
If you just look
at their actions,
2003
01:43:28,870 --> 01:43:30,622
they don't want
equality for women.
2004
01:43:30,830 --> 01:43:34,459
They want special prmleges
for women and girls.
2005
01:43:34,668 --> 01:43:37,462
And even though they know
in a lot of areas
2006
01:43:37,671 --> 01:43:41,091
men do not have equality,
they are silent.
2007
01:43:43,218 --> 01:43:44,498
The commander
of the marine corps
2008
01:43:44,636 --> 01:43:46,054
said that he thinks,
and I quote,
2009
01:43:46,221 --> 01:43:48,682
“ all eligible and
qualified men and women
2010
01:43:48,890 --> 01:43:50,090
should register for the draft,"
2011
01:43:50,141 --> 01:43:51,476
talking about selective service.
2012
01:43:51,685 --> 01:43:53,603
Do you think women
should also have to register
2013
01:43:53,812 --> 01:43:55,397
for selective service like men?
2014
01:43:55,605 --> 01:43:59,275
I have to think about whether
i think it's necessary
2015
01:43:59,484 --> 01:44:05,240
to go as far as our military
officers are recommending.
2016
01:44:05,448 --> 01:44:09,577
The idea of having
everybody register
2017
01:44:09,786 --> 01:44:11,162
concerns me a little bit,
2018
01:44:11,371 --> 01:44:13,039
unless we have a better idea
2019
01:44:13,248 --> 01:44:14,666
of where that's gonna come out.
2020
01:44:14,874 --> 01:44:16,501
Where I want people to register,
2021
01:44:16,710 --> 01:44:19,421
I want every young person
to register at the age of 18
2022
01:44:19,587 --> 01:44:21,172
to be able to vote
automatically.
2023
01:44:21,381 --> 01:44:23,508
And I think if...
2024
01:44:28,638 --> 01:44:30,098
What's the motivation?
2025
01:44:30,306 --> 01:44:31,933
People don't ask,
what's the motivation?
2026
01:44:32,142 --> 01:44:33,285
Do we need
a men's rights moment?
2027
01:44:33,309 --> 01:44:36,104
No. We need common sense.
2028
01:44:36,271 --> 01:44:38,523
But if there's gonna be
this woman's movement
2029
01:44:38,732 --> 01:44:41,943
and this is the movement that's
gonna do all these things,
2030
01:44:42,152 --> 01:44:43,945
then maybe we need
a counterbalance,
2031
01:44:44,154 --> 01:44:45,947
something called
a men's rights movement,
2032
01:44:46,156 --> 01:44:48,116
or men's movement.
2033
01:44:48,324 --> 01:44:50,118
I hate to see
either one of them.
2034
01:44:50,326 --> 01:44:52,912
I think it's a shame.
I think it's destructive.
2035
01:45:01,296 --> 01:45:05,341
I'm hearing what the men's
rights actmsts are saying.
2036
01:45:05,550 --> 01:45:07,051
And I'm finding the sources
2037
01:45:07,260 --> 01:45:09,137
to support what they're saying.
2038
01:45:09,345 --> 01:45:11,765
Men are just as likely
to be victims
2039
01:45:11,973 --> 01:45:15,143
of intimate partner
physical violence.
2040
01:45:15,351 --> 01:45:19,397
Men have little to no control
over their parental destiny,
2041
01:45:19,606 --> 01:45:22,066
especially when he's tricked
into fatherhood
2042
01:45:22,275 --> 01:45:23,568
or he's raising a child
2043
01:45:23,777 --> 01:45:27,155
that he later finds out
isn't his.
2044
01:45:27,363 --> 01:45:29,574
The sentencing disparity
between men and women
2045
01:45:29,783 --> 01:45:32,994
is six times larger
than the sentencing disparity
2046
01:45:33,203 --> 01:45:36,039
between blacks and whites.
2047
01:45:36,247 --> 01:45:38,374
So while a black man
may be sentenced
2048
01:45:38,583 --> 01:45:40,376
to ten percent more prison time
2049
01:45:40,585 --> 01:45:43,588
for the same crime
as a white man,
2050
01:45:43,797 --> 01:45:48,009
a man is sentenced
to over 60°/o more prison time
2051
01:45:48,218 --> 01:45:51,054
than a woman arrested
for the same crime.
2052
01:45:52,764 --> 01:45:55,391
Boys are falling behind
in education.
2053
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:57,811
They are enrolling
at lower rates
2054
01:45:58,019 --> 01:46:01,397
and earning
less college degrees.
2055
01:46:01,606 --> 01:46:04,108
And while not all mras
agree on the issue
2056
01:46:04,317 --> 01:46:06,402
of infant male circumcision,
2057
01:46:06,611 --> 01:46:11,199
most mras do believe it is
a human rights violation.
2058
01:46:11,366 --> 01:46:14,702
I spent months learning about
infant male circumcision,
2059
01:46:14,911 --> 01:46:17,455
but it only took me
watching a five-minute
2060
01:46:17,664 --> 01:46:20,708
medical training video
to convince me
2061
01:46:20,917 --> 01:46:24,003
this is a barbaric practice
that needs to stop.
2062
01:46:24,212 --> 01:46:27,048
Okay, so first thing,
make sure he's well restrained.
2063
01:46:27,257 --> 01:46:30,426
So the foreskin. Okay?
2064
01:46:30,635 --> 01:46:33,638
And we repeat the process with
just one end on and clamp.
2065
01:46:33,847 --> 01:46:35,515
Anything that gets clamped
gets cut.
2066
01:46:35,723 --> 01:46:37,225
All that was
left, a partial penis
2067
01:46:37,433 --> 01:46:39,143
and his tiny testicles.
2068
01:46:39,352 --> 01:46:43,064
Rhodes says Ashton urinates
through a hole in his penis.
2069
01:46:43,273 --> 01:46:45,650
She says she can't imagine now
what she'll say to her son
2070
01:46:45,859 --> 01:46:47,044
when he's old enough
to understand
2071
01:46:47,068 --> 01:46:48,152
what's happened to him.
2072
01:46:48,361 --> 01:46:50,071
How could you explain it
to your child
2073
01:46:50,280 --> 01:46:51,531
that you don't have a penis
2074
01:46:51,739 --> 01:46:54,325
or you might never be
able to have kids?
2075
01:47:03,251 --> 01:47:05,461
Yes, men are the majority
2076
01:47:05,670 --> 01:47:08,590
of workplace deaths
and injuries,
2077
01:47:08,798 --> 01:47:13,469
war deaths, suicides.
2078
01:47:13,678 --> 01:47:15,638
They have a shorter
life expectancy.
2079
01:47:18,224 --> 01:47:19,504
Warren Farrell
makes the argument
2080
01:47:19,684 --> 01:47:21,269
that prostate cancer
and breast cancer
2081
01:47:21,436 --> 01:47:24,272
mortality rates are similar,
2082
01:47:24,480 --> 01:47:26,482
but funding
disproportionately supports
2083
01:47:26,691 --> 01:47:28,902
breast cancer research
and awareness
2084
01:47:29,110 --> 01:47:30,653
over prostate cancer.
2085
01:47:34,282 --> 01:47:38,703
The red pill is about
looking at these issues
2086
01:47:38,912 --> 01:47:41,664
in an honest way,
even when it's uncomfortable.
2087
01:47:41,873 --> 01:47:44,042
And these things
are uncomfortable.
2088
01:47:44,250 --> 01:47:49,088
But without the willingness
2089
01:47:49,297 --> 01:47:51,507
to set aside the programming
2090
01:47:51,716 --> 01:47:54,510
and to set aside the false
beliefs about what power 1s
2091
01:47:54,719 --> 01:47:57,597
and what women are
and who women are...
2092
01:47:57,805 --> 01:48:02,560
Part of what we do is a pretty
serious critique of both sexes.
2093
01:48:02,769 --> 01:48:04,020
It's brutal.
2094
01:48:04,228 --> 01:48:06,022
But critiquing the sexes
2095
01:48:06,230 --> 01:48:08,316
is a real valuable thing.
2096
01:48:08,524 --> 01:48:11,152
Feminists don't want you
to do it, though,
2097
01:48:11,361 --> 01:48:13,081
unless you're portraying
women as the victim
2098
01:48:13,154 --> 01:48:15,239
and men as perpetrator.
2099
01:48:15,448 --> 01:48:17,533
The red pill is
about understanding
2100
01:48:17,742 --> 01:48:19,744
men and women like
everything else in life.
2101
01:48:19,953 --> 01:48:21,287
It's a mixed bag.
2102
01:48:21,454 --> 01:48:22,997
You've got victims
and perpetrators
2103
01:48:23,164 --> 01:48:24,499
on both sides of the fence.
2104
01:48:24,707 --> 01:48:26,960
And that's all.
It's real simple.
2105
01:48:27,168 --> 01:48:28,378
It's just not easy.
2106
01:48:32,507 --> 01:48:35,385
Hmm.
2107
01:48:35,593 --> 01:48:38,680
I... I think I agree
with everything you said.
2108
01:48:38,888 --> 01:48:42,976
But there's... there's still
some kind of unsettling doubt,
2109
01:48:43,184 --> 01:48:46,771
and I don't know
where that's coming from.
2110
01:48:46,980 --> 01:48:49,148
I'm recognizing all of these
2111
01:48:49,357 --> 01:48:52,026
very serious
men's rights issues.
2112
01:48:52,235 --> 01:48:54,946
But what I don't understand
2113
01:48:55,154 --> 01:48:57,573
is how I could be agreeing
2114
01:48:57,782 --> 01:49:01,202
with men's rights actmsts.
2115
01:49:01,411 --> 01:49:03,663
Is this the same
misogynist hate group
2116
01:49:03,871 --> 01:49:07,750
I originally discovered online?
2117
01:49:07,959 --> 01:49:09,210
The Southern poverty law center
2118
01:49:09,419 --> 01:49:10,795
has classified that group
2119
01:49:11,004 --> 01:49:13,297
and men's rights groups
as hate groups.
2120
01:49:13,506 --> 01:49:16,384
1 looked into what 1
was hearing from feminists
2121
01:49:16,551 --> 01:49:19,929
and the mass media about
the men's rights movement.
2122
01:49:20,138 --> 01:49:21,597
I've read a lot
and I've heard a lot
2123
01:49:21,806 --> 01:49:23,599
that the men's rights movement
2124
01:49:23,808 --> 01:49:25,393
has been labeled a hate group
2125
01:49:25,601 --> 01:49:27,603
by the Southern poverty
law center.
2126
01:49:27,812 --> 01:49:29,814
- Is that correct?
- Yeah, that's not quite true.
2127
01:49:30,023 --> 01:49:31,816
No, they got it wrong. No.
2128
01:49:32,025 --> 01:49:33,860
This was somehow written up
2129
01:49:34,068 --> 01:49:36,446
on some kind of
anti-men's rights websites
2130
01:49:36,612 --> 01:49:39,032
as us having listed them
as hate groups and so on.
2131
01:49:39,240 --> 01:49:40,241
That we didn't do.
2132
01:49:47,749 --> 01:49:52,045
He wrote a piece
2133
01:49:52,253 --> 01:49:55,048
declaring the month
of October to be
2134
01:49:55,256 --> 01:49:57,842
"bash a violent bitch month."
2135
01:49:58,051 --> 01:49:59,844
Jesus.
2136
01:50:00,053 --> 01:50:02,305
"I mean, literally
to grab them by the hair
2137
01:50:02,513 --> 01:50:05,183
and smack their face
against the wall," he wrote.
2138
01:50:09,020 --> 01:50:11,272
I then discovered
that Paul elam's famous
2139
01:50:11,481 --> 01:50:14,609
"bash a violent bitch" article
was written in response
2140
01:50:14,817 --> 01:50:17,028
to this article
by jezebel called...
2141
01:50:21,908 --> 01:50:24,077
The article cited
a study that revealed
2142
01:50:24,285 --> 01:50:27,038
70°/o of non-reciprocated
violence
2143
01:50:27,246 --> 01:50:29,165
was perpetuated by women.
2144
01:50:29,373 --> 01:50:31,084
The author then went on to say
2145
01:50:31,292 --> 01:50:34,087
that she conducted an
informal survey at the office
2146
01:50:34,295 --> 01:50:35,880
and the gist of her findings
2147
01:50:36,089 --> 01:50:39,759
was that many women had
physically assaulted their man,
2148
01:50:39,967 --> 01:50:43,304
and it was interpreted
as either being funny
2149
01:50:43,513 --> 01:50:46,808
or he was asking for it.
2150
01:50:47,016 --> 01:50:48,684
I couldn't help
but see the hypocrisy
2151
01:50:48,893 --> 01:50:52,897
in a major feminist website
making light of abusing men,
2152
01:50:53,106 --> 01:50:55,483
and mras stinging back
2153
01:50:55,691 --> 01:50:58,569
only to have the media
paint them as the abusers.
2154
01:52:16,731 --> 01:52:20,776
After my year of filming men's
rights actmsts and feminists
2155
01:52:20,985 --> 01:52:22,570
my descent into the rabbit hole
2156
01:52:22,778 --> 01:52:25,990
was not slowing down.
2157
01:52:26,199 --> 01:52:27,491
My education on gender politics
2158
01:52:27,700 --> 01:52:30,953
was really just beginning.
2159
01:52:31,162 --> 01:52:33,915
I learned about other sectors
of the online manosphere,
2160
01:52:34,123 --> 01:52:37,001
like mgtow,
"men going their own way,"
2161
01:52:37,210 --> 01:52:40,588
and forum on reddit
called "the red pill,"
2162
01:52:40,796 --> 01:52:42,399
which is separate from
the men's rights community,
2163
01:52:42,423 --> 01:52:46,219
and they do not see eye to eye.
2164
01:52:46,427 --> 01:52:48,429
I'm told an easy way
to remember the difference
2165
01:52:48,638 --> 01:52:52,808
is that while mras want
to change the system
2166
01:52:53,017 --> 01:52:56,646
redd1t's “the red pill“ want to
take adv ant age of the system,
2167
01:52:56,812 --> 01:52:58,981
and mgtow want
to leave the system.
2168
01:53:01,400 --> 01:53:03,903
There are so many
perspectives on gender,
2169
01:53:04,111 --> 01:53:07,114
and I believe they're
all worthy of listening to.
2170
01:53:07,323 --> 01:53:11,452
However, the conversation
is being silenced.
2171
01:53:11,661 --> 01:53:13,996
For a society to accept
anything said
2172
01:53:14,205 --> 01:53:15,998
on behalf of women's rights
2173
01:53:16,207 --> 01:53:19,460
and then to shame any
dialogue about men's rights
2174
01:53:19,669 --> 01:53:23,256
and call it hate speech
is precisely the problem.
2175
01:53:23,464 --> 01:53:25,466
This 1s what men's
rights look like'.!
2176
01:53:25,675 --> 01:53:27,260
I don't know where I'm headed,
2177
01:53:27,468 --> 01:53:30,638
but I know what I left behind.
2178
01:53:30,846 --> 01:53:33,057
I no longer call myself
a feminist.
2179
01:54:06,257 --> 01:54:07,425
♪ Just think about it
2180
01:54:07,633 --> 01:54:09,093
♪ put on some borrowed kicks
2181
01:54:09,302 --> 01:54:10,886
♪ hang all your notions up
2182
01:54:11,095 --> 01:54:12,513
♪ it's never what it is
2183
01:54:12,722 --> 01:54:14,348
♪ wisdom is asking why
2184
01:54:14,557 --> 01:54:16,100
♪ there is another side
2185
01:54:16,309 --> 01:54:17,893
♪ down where
the rabbit lives
2186
01:54:18,102 --> 01:54:19,520
♪ my world will
blow your mind
2187
01:54:19,729 --> 01:54:21,522
♪ just have a look at it
2188
01:54:21,731 --> 01:54:23,524
♪ think, think about it
2189
01:54:23,733 --> 01:54:25,109
♪ just think about it
2190
01:54:25,318 --> 01:54:26,902
♪ think, think about it
2191
01:54:27,111 --> 01:54:28,529
♪ just think about it
2192
01:54:28,738 --> 01:54:30,323
♪ think, think about it
2193
01:54:30,531 --> 01:54:31,907
♪ just think about it
2194
01:54:32,116 --> 01:54:33,784
♪ think, think about it
2195
01:54:33,993 --> 01:54:35,328
♪ just think about it
2196
01:54:48,090 --> 01:54:50,092
♪ just think about it
2197
01:54:56,307 --> 01:54:57,933
♪ don't gotta
change your mind
2198
01:54:58,142 --> 01:54:59,560
♪ just try to open it
2199
01:54:59,769 --> 01:55:01,354
♪ I'll let you use my eyes
2200
01:55:01,562 --> 01:55:02,938
♪ see what I'm dealing with
2201
01:55:03,147 --> 01:55:05,149
♪ people with
different stories
2202
01:55:05,358 --> 01:55:08,569
♪ dmded by
different categories
2203
01:55:08,778 --> 01:55:10,154
♪ and reasons why
2204
01:55:10,363 --> 01:55:12,156
♪ the smart speak
2205
01:55:12,365 --> 01:55:14,158
♪ the wise, they listen
2206
01:55:14,367 --> 01:55:15,701
♪ the wise, they listen
2207
01:55:15,910 --> 01:55:17,119
♪ just think about it
2208
01:55:17,328 --> 01:55:18,996
♪ think, think about it
2209
01:55:19,205 --> 01:55:20,581
♪ just think about it
2210
01:55:20,790 --> 01:55:22,583
♪ think, think about it
2211
01:55:22,792 --> 01:55:24,126
♪ just think about it
2212
01:55:24,335 --> 01:55:25,878
♪ think, think about it
2213
01:55:26,087 --> 01:55:27,630
♪ just think about it
2214
01:55:27,838 --> 01:55:29,382
♪ think, think about it
2215
01:55:29,590 --> 01:55:30,966
♪ just think about it
2216
01:55:36,764 --> 01:55:37,932
♪ just think about it
2217
01:55:43,562 --> 01:55:45,147
♪ just think about it
2218
01:56:27,189 --> 01:56:28,816
♪ think about it
2219
01:56:29,024 --> 01:56:30,651
♪ think about it
2220
01:56:30,860 --> 01:56:33,654
♪ think about it
2221
01:56:33,863 --> 01:56:35,656
♪ think, think about it
2222
01:56:35,865 --> 01:56:37,241
♪ just think about it
2223
01:56:37,450 --> 01:56:39,118
♪ think, think about it
2224
01:56:39,326 --> 01:56:40,661
♪ just think about it
2225
01:56:40,870 --> 01:56:42,580
♪ think, think about it
2226
01:56:42,788 --> 01:56:43,998
♪ just think about it
2227
01:56:44,206 --> 01:56:46,125
♪ think, think about it
2228
01:56:46,333 --> 01:56:47,668
♪ just think about it
2229
01:56:47,877 --> 01:56:51,046
♪ think, think about it
2230
01:56:51,255 --> 01:56:52,673
♪ think, think about it
2231
01:56:52,882 --> 01:56:54,467
♪ you gotta think about it
2232
01:56:54,675 --> 01:56:57,845
♪ think, think about it
2233
01:56:58,053 --> 01:56:59,680
♪ think, think about it
2234
01:56:59,889 --> 01:57:01,474
♪ come on and think about it
2235
01:57:05,060 --> 01:57:06,479
♪ there is another side
2236
01:57:06,687 --> 01:57:08,439
♪ down where
the rabbit lives
2237
01:57:11,859 --> 01:57:13,486
♪ I'll let you use my eyes
2238
01:57:13,694 --> 01:57:15,237
♪ see what I'm dealing with
2239
01:57:19,033 --> 01:57:20,868
♪ think, think about it
2240
01:57:21,076 --> 01:57:22,411
♪ just think about it
2241
01:57:25,831 --> 01:57:27,708
♪ think, think about it
2242
01:57:27,917 --> 01:57:30,044
♪ just think about it