1 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,200 'Hi, Debbie. 2 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:16,760 'It's Simon here. 3 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:20,840 'I know we've had our ups and downs, 4 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,480 'but I really do appreciate everything you've done for me.' 5 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:31,720 Up! 6 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,480 'I've been phenomenally lucky. 7 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:39,520 'Such a loving family. 8 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,280 'So many wonderful friends. 9 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:48,000 'I will miss it all.' 10 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,760 We will perhaps never know the full nature of 11 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,560 Simon's thoughts on life and death. 12 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,960 I suspect they were as complex and interesting as the man himself. 13 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,880 The toll that his disease took seems cruel. 14 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,200 The law is very clear. 15 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,720 In this country, we can't help people end their lives. 16 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,680 Everybody can change mind, 17 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,520 right in the last moment. 18 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,480 'I feel so strongly inside that this isn't the right thing to do. 19 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,440 'He's still really, really enjoying life.' 20 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:13,720 'If he goes to Switzerland, there is a price to be paid by other 21 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:17,080 'people and they may not be that happy to pay it.' 22 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,000 'How he dies is so important. 23 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,120 'For our children, for his sisters, his mother.' 24 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,040 However final it might feel to you now, 25 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:39,240 today is not the last word for Simon. 26 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,320 This is our lovely room. 27 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:05,760 Huh! 28 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,520 Have you enjoyed your day in the mountains, Simon? 29 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,960 Has it been frustrating, not being able to speak? 30 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:18,400 But you had a nice time? 31 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,240 Good. 32 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:28,400 You know, it's your 14th wedding anniversary today. 33 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,360 How does that make you feel? 34 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:40,080 Happy anniversary to Debbie and Simon. 35 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,600 Simon, I've zoomed in, I can see you really well! 36 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,320 'We've been married 14 years and we've just had such fun together.' 37 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,520 Aah! Simon! 38 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,240 'He's like a little boy, in some ways! 39 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,800 'But I like his energy. 40 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:01,320 'I like the fact life seems very alive when he's there.' 41 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:14,040 'He just makes every day just brighter and puts colour in life. 42 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:24,040 'Six months ago, we got this diagnosis, motor neurone disease. 43 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,680 'Terminal illness. Between six months and two years.' 44 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:33,120 They can't do anything at all to slow the illness down 45 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,640 or to change the prognosis, there is nothing at all, nothing. 46 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:40,960 Grandad... 47 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,000 'Roman, Roman, Roman. 48 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,200 'Come here, I have got something to show you.' 49 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,800 Did you hear that? Grandad's got something to show you. 50 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,160 'You are a silly boy.' 51 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,160 - No! - 'You are a silly boy.' - Top banana! 52 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,280 'Top banana. Happy days.' 53 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:00,720 Top banana, happy days! 54 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,240 SIMON LAUGHS Top banana, happy days! 55 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,120 'This machine is slow and frustrating 56 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,920 'for a man of my immense intellect.' 57 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,280 'For a man of my immense intellect and Cambridge education, 58 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:36,240 'even though I only got a third-class degree.' 59 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:43,600 'Third-class degree is a gentleman's degree that shows healthy 60 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,920 'interest in other things.' 61 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,760 Exactly. 62 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,360 Ha! Exactly. 63 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,200 'For Simon, who's a fantastic communicator, very amusing, 64 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,200 'very quick-witted, if you could take something away from him 65 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,480 'that would be the worst possible thing, it would be his voice.' 66 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,320 'Dratted disease!' 67 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,720 'People talk to me and not to him.' 68 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,080 I don't want to take over, so it's quite a difficult balance between 69 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,800 feeling quite protective, and I know my daughter Hannah does, as well. 70 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:16,040 People always commented on your Northern accent, 71 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,000 it's not something I really noticed at all. 72 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,000 Um, but I probably just didn't care. 73 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,480 Or maybe I wasn't listening most of the time! 74 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,360 Christmas, December 2013. 75 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,960 Will you give me a little kissy now? 76 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,480 - Urgh! - Just give me a little kiss... 77 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,120 - OK, here we go. - Yay! 78 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,200 And what's this one? 79 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,920 What's this one? What noise does it make? 80 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,200 Yay! 81 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,040 Yay! 82 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,880 That's my little baby, at home in Leeds. 83 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,720 There he is, now, that shows what he's going to be like, doesn't it? 84 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:39,240 A laugh. 85 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:47,520 Simon was only ever off school two days, he never got ill. 86 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,760 It's come as a great shock to all of us, really. 87 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,960 Sometimes, I wake up and it's absolutely dreadful 88 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,920 and I think, now, how much must he be waking up 89 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,640 thinking that he's got another thing that's not working? 90 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:11,280 I mean... 91 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,080 'Ever had a moment 92 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,320 'when you realise just how much you care about the things you own?' 93 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,240 'When it comes to a cooked breakfast, 94 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,040 'some people pick and pack.' 95 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,200 'Reducing our food waste by half could have the same 96 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,200 'effect on CO2 emissions as taking thousands of cars off the road.' 97 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,920 "Cool, natural, blokeish, 98 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:19,200 "regional, warm, smooth, rich, gravelly..." 99 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,880 'My name is Simon Binner.' 100 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,160 I'm a very gregarious guy. An alpha male. 101 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,880 'I have a loving family - Debbie, Hannah and her children, 102 00:09:59,880 --> 00:10:03,920 'and my brilliant daughter, Zoe, who lives in Germany.' 103 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,840 I was extremely happy until my diagnosis. 104 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:14,240 'I can feel my body changing week by week, and I'm now short of breath. 105 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,920 'I'm going to give up driving a car imminently. 106 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,080 'It's very sad for me. 107 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,120 'I can't answer the phone or be a driving force at work. 108 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,960 'In business, you need people to motivate 109 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,040 'and paint sunlit visions of the future. 110 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:32,760 'And I can't do that any more. 111 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,440 'Originally, we were going to sell our business, 112 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,120 'but I thought I would give my stepdaughter Hannah 113 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,600 'the opportunity to see if she could do it.' 114 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:43,880 How are you? 115 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,120 - Add this to the gross. - Yes. 116 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:58,440 This month? 117 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,320 - No. - Next month. 118 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,480 'He was operations director - 119 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,400 'managing staff, organising meetings, everything.' 120 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,640 So, we could save people a huge amount of money. 121 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,600 So, who would it... Your company, who would it be... 122 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,920 Sorry, your name again was...? Is it Brenda? Sorry, Deborah, sorry. 123 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,160 Who is it in your company that we would need to speak to? 124 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,840 'He was always the centre of attention, 125 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:25,680 'the life and soul of the party.' 126 00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:29,360 Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, good morning! 127 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,240 My name's Rocco, Rocco Ancelotti, 128 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,320 with the Global Pencil Company, here in New York City. 129 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,720 When I first came in February, Simon was here most days. 130 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,120 Now, Simon's probably here only one to two days a week, 131 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,800 he gets quite tired. 132 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:49,080 Oh... 133 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,600 'I'm an independent type of guy 134 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,080 'and the endgame of motor neurone disease is not to my taste.' 135 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,640 Like a used car, I'm worn out, 136 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,520 and it's no longer worth investing in the cost of repairs. 137 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,080 'When we drove back from hospital after my diagnosis 138 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,800 'in January, I decided then, en route in the car, 139 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,960 'that I would have to either kill myself 140 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:30,800 'or be euthanised in some way.' 141 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,400 Motor neurone disease is a horrible disease to get. 142 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,320 Typically, over six months to a year, 143 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,800 their speaking is likely to get worse and worse 144 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,600 until at some point, they won't be able to be understood by others. 145 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,760 'Eventually, the arms will become completely paralysed, 146 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,200 'the legs will become weaker and weaker, until eventually, someone 147 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,760 'will need a stick to walk, then a walking frame, then a wheelchair. 148 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,480 'But the thing that really carries people off is breathing difficulty.' 149 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,720 It's fatal because, at some point, 150 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,000 the muscles controlling the diaphragm will be affected. 151 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,320 And when someone gets diaphragm weakness, 152 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:07,840 they become short of breath, 153 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,520 and we have things that can support people through that... 154 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,000 through those symptoms, but, at some point, it becomes impossible. 155 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,600 Whoa! Mummy! 156 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,640 People might think, if they're able-bodied and able to walk around, 157 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,280 they might think, "I would never want to be in a wheelchair." 158 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,080 But it's not that the next day they'll be in a wheelchair, 159 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,840 it's that, in a year's time they might be in a wheelchair. 160 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,320 The process of getting to that point, 161 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,040 they'll have adapted to other aspects of the illness, 162 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:39,960 people actually cope far better 163 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,720 than they might have thought at the beginning. 164 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,120 Hardly anybody chooses assisted dying, 165 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,440 less than 1% of our patients choose it. 166 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,920 The vast majority choose palliative care 167 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,080 and a peaceful death in that way. 168 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,200 'I've always been quite anti assisted dying.' 169 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,560 It's one of those dinner party conversations you have, 170 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,480 never dreaming that you'd actually 171 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,840 ever ACTUALLY be having this conversation. 172 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:34,440 I think an assisted death, getting on a plane and going to Switzerland, 173 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,720 actually, even the thought of it makes me feel physically sick, 174 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,600 and I feel more and more, 175 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,400 if I'm honest, utterly terrified of 176 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,440 what it will be like, what the... 177 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:53,080 And it's outside of most people's experience, so, um... 178 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,280 Have you tried to persuade him not to? 179 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:02,560 I don't know, I feel... I feel very... 180 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,560 ..frightened to upset him any more. 181 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:12,040 Because he is very upset, though you wouldn't necessarily see it, 182 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,640 but he is becoming quite vulnerable. 183 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,600 As I think people do when they become ill, 184 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,520 however strong you are, when you become physically ill, 185 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,080 you become more vulnerable. 186 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,360 So, I think I kind of avoid conversations 187 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:27,520 a lot of the time and just say, 188 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,040 "Oh, a cup of tea?" Doing those... 189 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:33,280 Trying to make everyday life OK. 190 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,560 But, um, so, we don't really talk about it 191 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,080 and I almost can't talk about it, because it... 192 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:41,960 ..makes it more real. 193 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,040 Shall we go to Grandad? Go to Grandad. 194 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,800 'Should people have the right to die? 195 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,400 'It's a question that's been asked for years.' 196 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,440 'Helping someone to kill themselves is currently 197 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:14,200 'punishable in England and Wales by up to 14 years in prison.' 198 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,080 'There could be few issues of more fundamental importance 199 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,360 'to society than how we treat the terminally ill.' 200 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,040 'Thursday 19th. 201 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,560 'E-mail to Dr Erika Preisig. 202 00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:52,480 'Hello, Dr Preisig. 203 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,160 'I'm 57 and I was diagnosed with motor neurone disease 204 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,440 'on the 7th January, 2015. 205 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,440 'And I'd like to have an eccentric, rock-and-roll version 206 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,320 'of your highly esteemed assisted-dying service.' 207 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,280 'There's always so much traffic. 208 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,680 'This is one reason why we usually start at 8.30.' 209 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,200 Do you always do them in the morning? 210 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:26,320 Usually, yes. 211 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,520 Usually, the authorities of Switzerland don't like us 212 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,160 to do it in the afternoon. 213 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,560 Because then, it runs into four or five o'clock 214 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:38,840 and they want to go home. 215 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,000 With assisted dying, 216 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,360 there's three organisations who accept foreigners in Switzerland. 217 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,440 Dignitas is the biggest one, 218 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,080 lifecircle - it works in Basel. 219 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,760 'We have two assisted dyings a week. 220 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,720 'They have to send mails, 221 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,760 'send doctor's reports about their illness. 222 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,280 'I show the documents to another doctor, who is going to see them. 223 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,600 'And if he says, "I think we can accept him," 224 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,280 'then he gets the provisional green light.' 225 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,320 This is the medication. 226 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,880 It's a powder that you have to dissolve. 227 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,960 It's an anaesthetic, and if you take half a gram, 228 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,280 you can have a big operation, 229 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,880 which makes us feel safe 230 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,240 that you feel no pain, 231 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,800 you feel no fear, nothing. 232 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:18,680 And this is 30 times the dose of a normal anaesthetic. 233 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,320 'It takes 30 seconds until they fall asleep. 234 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,640 'Within these 30 seconds, 235 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,560 'the family can sit close, hold hands, 236 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,400 'say a last few words. 237 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,640 'And within about four minutes, the heart stops beating 238 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,440 'and they are dead.' 239 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,840 OK, good. 240 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,960 'In just two months' time, the controversial 241 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,240 'Assisted Dying Bill will be voted on by MPs 242 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,080 'for the first time in almost 20 years.' 243 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,000 'Doctors would be allowed to give a lethal dose of drugs 244 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,440 'to adults who have asked for help to die 245 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,120 'and are thought to have less than six months to live.' 246 00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:46,960 'Disabled people and people who are terminally ill 247 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,800 'would like people to alleviate our suffering 248 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,400 'by helping us live better lives, not by killing us.' 249 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,120 'The pressure that is going to be put on terminally ill people, 250 00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:59,200 'they'd end up thinking, "I should go, I'm going 251 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,480 ' "to be a burden on my family, it's right for me..." ' 252 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,320 'The Church remains strongly opposed to assisted dying...' 253 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,600 'I want to see much more emphasis put on supporting people in living, 254 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,520 'than assisting them in dying.' 255 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:15,240 Come on. 256 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,720 Onward! 257 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,280 Good boy. 258 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:23,520 Onward! 259 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:08,400 Good boy. 260 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:10,680 Good boy. 261 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:14,000 Good boy. 262 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,160 'In the future, when Ralph becomes poorly, 263 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:25,560 'we'll call the vet to our house and we'll all stroke Ralph 264 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,240 'and say our last goodbyes to the most loyal of dogs. 265 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,800 'And then, he'll gently be put to sleep.' 266 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,320 And that's what I'd like for me. 267 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,000 'There's a time to live and a time to die. 268 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,360 'Right now would be my ideal time to die. 269 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:53,040 'Debbie's plight causes me incredible sadness, 270 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,560 'because she's been so kind to me and so kind to Chloe. 271 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,520 'We loved Chloe so much. 272 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,120 'She was the centre of our lives.' 273 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,680 Chloe was my youngest daughter. 274 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,960 She got a rare bone cancer at 15. 275 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,120 She had treatment for three years 276 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:25,320 and then she died when she was 18, 277 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,240 which was two years ago. 278 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,280 But the pain became unbearable for her at one point 279 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,080 and she asked me to kill her. 280 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,760 And I think... 281 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,040 ..to have, you know, your 18-year-old daughter 282 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,600 asking you to do that... 283 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,560 But we had a fantastic palliative care team, absolutely fantastic 284 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,120 palliative care team, and they came round and sorted it out. 285 00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:54,440 Then the next day, she woke up, as kids do at that age, and said, 286 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,080 "Oh, I'm sorry I asked you to do that, Mum." 287 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,120 It was like... "Oh, my God!" 288 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:04,080 And then, we went on and had a few months of some lovely times. 289 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,520 Losing a child, there's nothing worse than that, 290 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,120 but there was something... 291 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,480 ..more natural? I don't know. 292 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,480 In that we knew that we had... 293 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,600 This is so hard, 294 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,200 because motor neurone disease is such a different illness, but... 295 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:35,200 There was still hope with my daughter, right up to the end, 296 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:40,080 we were still hoping for another day, and we had lovely times, 297 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,600 and I guess, maybe, if I thought about it, 298 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,080 there's a bit of anger in me that, you know, 299 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,680 why can't Simon just do that? 300 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,440 You know, your life closes in when you get ill, I think, 301 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,160 but we still really enjoyed watching telly together, 302 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,120 or eating together, and it's those little things that become so... 303 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:04,040 So, maybe, there's a bit of me that thinks, "Oh, why can't you, 304 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,560 "you know, do that?" But... 305 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,960 'Wednesday 24th. 306 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,920 'Hello, Erika. 307 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,440 'I've just used Google Maps and you're only 90 minutes' drive 308 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,760 'from Freiburg, Germany, where Debbie and I 309 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,880 'will be on holiday with two friends, Will and Chris Watson. 310 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,400 'Will Watson is also my business partner. 311 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,680 'We were both born in November 1957. 312 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,720 'I've known him since we were 313 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,680 'eight-year-old boys at Bolton School. 314 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,520 'I could get Will to drive me over to meet you, if that was convenient. 315 00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:02,240 'I would like to book myself into your clinic on Monday, 2nd November. 316 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,720 'Ebullient regards, Simon Binner.' 317 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,480 If you say you want to go on the 2nd of November, 318 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,760 what if you, a week before, say, 319 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,200 "Well, I want to hang on a bit longer?" 320 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,600 - You don't know that. - You don't know. 321 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,200 - No, I won't. - Well, I'll ask her that. 322 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,920 What's so significant about the 2nd of November? 323 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,520 It's his birthday. 324 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,800 'We met at primary school.' 325 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,640 He was always the guy telling jokes, the, the... 326 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,760 the big man in the crowd, the leader of the gang. 327 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,080 - Oh, OK. - So, you'll be quirky in that... 328 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,040 'One worry I have with Simon, 329 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:04,320 'he has a tendency for the big gesture. 330 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,600 'That this may be' 331 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,160 the big gesture to end them all, if you see what I mean. 332 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,920 And that once he's made the decision and publicised his intention, 333 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,240 he will then feel locked into it, even though 334 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,680 he might be having second thoughts later. 335 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,600 - So, you haven't actually met her before? - No. 336 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,240 - Have you thought of the questions you want to ask her? - No. 337 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,760 Well, THAT is a worry. 338 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,720 It worries me that you're not thinking these things through. 339 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,040 No, I have thought these things through! 340 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,080 How do you know you're going downhill? 341 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,120 But that doesn't stop you living. 342 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,560 You can eat, your arms and legs work, you can see, 343 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,120 you can hear, you can... 344 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,120 Everyone feels vulnerable at some point, so... 345 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,920 And you're not thinking about these things, you're just saying, 346 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,000 "I'm booking on the 2nd November." 347 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,800 Because I think that's panic. 348 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,840 I am going down like this. 349 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,200 Yes, but... No, you are saying you are going down like this... 350 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,840 - I am, I am! - You're not. 351 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:28,080 We have far too many demands for assisted dying. 352 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,640 More demands than you have dates to give to the people. 353 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:34,960 Ja. 354 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,000 Klar, klar, klar. Ja. 355 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,720 'How can you decide to which ones you say no, 356 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,440 'to which ones you say yes?' 357 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,560 Come in. Come in. 358 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,560 'In Switzerland, the guidelines are, 359 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,880 'you must have some sort of illness, you must be of sound mind, 360 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,080 'you must have been thinking about it for a long time. 361 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,720 'I have to listen and make sure' 362 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,720 they are not throwing something away, the most precious 363 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,640 gift of life, that has ever been given to them, too early. 364 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,080 - Yes. - Never. 365 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,400 You have thought it through. 366 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:49,640 - You want to die. - Yeah. 367 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,040 Yes. 368 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,160 You have an incurable illness, you are of sound mind, 369 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,080 you don't seem to be depressed, even though you have a very bad illness, 370 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,800 which is very good... 371 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,440 - Can I ask you a question about it? - Yes, of course. 372 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:20,400 Because how do you know he's of sound mind at the moment? 373 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,320 Just by talking to him. 374 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,200 - Right. - Just by listening to him. 375 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,120 Could it be that he's just really scared today 376 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,920 and that maybe as time... 377 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,920 Like tomorrow, the next day, he might feel a bit different. 378 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,640 Cos his... Cos I live with him and see his mood go up and down. 379 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,240 Yes, yes. 380 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,120 I think what makes me worry is that he's so frightened... 381 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,920 But you're frightened of being incapacitated. 382 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,240 Yeah, OK. 383 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,600 It worries me that it's a knee-jerk reaction. 384 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:11,040 "Right, that's it. I'm going and..." 385 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,200 And I want him to think about it more deeply and... 386 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,720 It depends on what you want. 387 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,440 But it's your decision. 388 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,480 Why are you so sure, Erika? 389 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,840 Why do you feel so passionately about it? 390 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,280 You only have to listen to people. 391 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,720 You really have to listen to them. 392 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,920 You know, he's not a child. 393 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,240 He knows what he wants to do. 394 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,120 And it is his life. 395 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,480 He has been taking responsibility for his life 396 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:43,960 for many, many years, 397 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,720 and he's a strong-minded person. 398 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,080 And now, at the end of life, 399 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:50,960 that he gets weaker... 400 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,760 ..he is still strong-minded, 401 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,600 but people tend to treat 402 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,640 as if they were children. 403 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,080 I can understand what you want. 404 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,640 You would like to keep your husband as long as possible 405 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,840 - because you love him. - Mm. 406 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:16,160 - And it's very, very difficult to accept. - Mm. 407 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,160 Saying goodbye before nature... 408 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,520 ..forces you to. 409 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,440 - Mm. - Um... 410 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,560 People who have to let go do the more difficult job 411 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,080 - than the people who go. - Mm. 412 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,160 That's very important to know. 413 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,960 It is much easier to go into an assisted dying 414 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,320 than to accept an assisted dying. Do you know why? 415 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,360 After you're dead, you're dead. 416 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,240 - Yeah. - You're out of the problems. - Yeah. 417 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,960 But your wife has to go on living. 418 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:05,320 You must ask yourself - is it his decision? Is it your decision? 419 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,960 - Is it his life? Is it your life? - Mm. 420 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:11,600 I know it's difficult. 421 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,600 Dying does not have to be something horrible. Dying can be something... 422 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,480 Something like a ceremony. 423 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,720 Do you know, last week, we had an assisted dying 424 00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:29,160 and this lady had 21 people who were with her. 425 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,120 - Really? - 21 people. 426 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,680 That was the most... the highest number that we ever had. 427 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:37,040 And it was so nice... 428 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,080 You must do it your way. 429 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,840 - You would like to die on your birthday? - Yeah. 430 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:03,000 I'm a little bit afraid that you hang on to your birthday 431 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:08,760 so strongly that you are not willing to postpone it. 432 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,840 If you were as well as you are now on the end of October, 433 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,840 would you postpone it? 434 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,840 - If you were exactly like you are now? - Yes. 435 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,360 - Then you would postpone it? - Yes. 436 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,000 For me, it is important to know this. 437 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,080 I do not want you to go too early. 438 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,480 The 2nd November? 439 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,360 You are welcome to have an assisted dying, for sure. 440 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,200 It is a big step to take, isn't it? 441 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,120 And he is doing it on his birthday. 442 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,400 - Are you going to go, too? - Yes. I am. 443 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,320 I was there when he was born. 444 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,920 I don't encourage him, but I will go along with whatever he wants. 445 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,720 He will stay as long as he's enjoying himself, won't he? 446 00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:17,040 I think. 447 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,440 I don't know if anybody ever does go to Switzerland and come home, 448 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,000 change their mind. I don't know if they've ever done. Do you? 449 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,680 'Text message to College Boys. 450 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,120 'I am booked to die now on Monday, 2nd November. 451 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,680 'Thank you for bringing the annual Christ College reunion 452 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,200 'forwards on my account.' 453 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,560 39 years now. 454 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,440 In a way, we're like brothers. 455 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,680 He was the funny one, he always made us laugh. 456 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,560 We have always laughed a lot. 457 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,160 Binner told the best jokes that I'd ever heard. 458 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,640 We used to do ludicrous things. 459 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,640 Binner and I used to try and not go to bed for 72 hours. 460 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,000 So, we would stay up for days and nights 461 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,120 cos we'd try and hallucinate. 462 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,280 Nothing was predictable. 463 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,120 There was some holiday where he managed to tell people 464 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,480 all the way through, for some bizarre reason, 465 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,120 that he was a funeral director, 466 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,360 and maintained this fiction for two weeks or something. 467 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,840 - Salut! - Salute! - Get it right, man! 468 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,760 Salut! Is it salut or salute? 469 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,160 We are actually all feeling distraught, you know? 470 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,720 We have sustained a very close set of friendships all this time 471 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:08,960 and he is utterly central to our group. 472 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,520 And, uh, 473 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,320 I know I am probably more sentimental than many other people, 474 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,360 and I have cried every time I've seen him for the last few months! 475 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,800 So, I saw him last Saturday, I cried pathetically. 476 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,280 Some of these people here, 477 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,480 this will be the last time they see him. 478 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,560 Really good to see you. 479 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,160 I was sort of shocked and surprised 480 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,920 to know that Simon had set a date for his, uh... 481 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,240 What's the appropriate term? Assisted suicide? 482 00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:44,320 He seems to be checking out ahead of his time. 483 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:49,520 And I am not entirely comfortable with his decision. 484 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,000 We're all crushed. 485 00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,320 How can one be reconciled to someone who is so great 486 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,000 taking themselves off at the age of 58 and killing themselves? 487 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:09,440 I think he's chosen a date which is too soon. 488 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,880 "Bins, I know you feel strongly about it 489 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,400 "but I do feel that setting 490 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,360 "a date in advance is potentially deeply problematic. Debs has real 491 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:28,400 "qualms about you choosing the date in advance and that worries me, too. 492 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:31,680 "Debbie has rights in this." 493 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,560 Taking yourself off to Switzerland could be seen as selfish. 494 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,280 Binner is very forceful, 495 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,960 but he is arguable-with. If Debbie was more resolute in saying, 496 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,800 "Binnie, no, you can't do this, I forbid you from doing it." 497 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,400 That would make it a much more difficult matter for all of us. 498 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,160 'He is changing as a person. 499 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,640 'I sense his, kind of, creeping isolation.' 500 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,040 I am doing more and more, 501 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,320 which he gets increasingly cross about, but... 502 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:44,320 'I hate the fact that he thinks because he has an illness, 503 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,120 'he is somehow less worthy of being able to live, 504 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,600 'enjoy things and have the right to stay alive. 505 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,320 'I feel very, very strongly that he is not a burden.' 506 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,280 It's those little practical things that can help. 507 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,760 Ralph needs to be walked twice a day. 508 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,440 Um, he can't walk Ralph now. 509 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,040 - What? - Mountain biking. 510 00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:19,200 Mountain biking. 511 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,200 - "Moneymaking"? - No! Mountain! 512 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,000 Biking... 513 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,800 Oh, yes, mountain biking. 514 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:31,080 So, I mean, three months ago, less than three months ago, 515 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,000 Bins and I were cycling in the Italian Alps, cycling up mountains. 516 00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,360 The speed of change, it's accelerated. 517 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,720 We are all in fast-forward at the moment, and you want to try 518 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:52,920 and stall it, you want to try and capture every moment. And you can't. 519 00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:57,680 How are you feeling about the November date? 520 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,360 Uh, I am dreading it. 521 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,400 And I am disbelieving it, in a way, 522 00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,800 I don't want to believe it, 523 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,680 because that's... 524 00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,720 I'm probably not the only one, that's my way of coping. 525 00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:12,600 As I was coming over here today, 526 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,560 I was figuring out how many days left, you know, 527 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:16,880 how many weeks left. 528 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,880 And it's... And it's... 529 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,400 It's going so quickly. 530 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:27,400 - Well, it's... - Uh... - It's eight weeks, just under eight weeks now. 531 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:45,160 Are you OK this morning? Yes? 532 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,840 All right? 533 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:35,560 Yeah? 534 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:38,960 Yes. 535 00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:45,240 Three. 536 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,800 - Thank you. - Yes? 537 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,280 - Thank you. - You're welcome. 538 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,600 'MPs will today be debating whether to legalise assisted dying. 539 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,120 'The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, 540 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,040 'has described it as one of the biggest dilemmas of our time.' 541 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:23,480 'Order! 542 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,200 'It's a great honour to speak on a debate 543 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,600 'which is actually a matter of life or death.' 544 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,840 'I think it's naive to believe that we can prevent 545 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,440 'the persuasion of an elderly, expensive or asset-rich relative 546 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:46,440 'being encouraged, coerced or emotionally 547 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,600 - 'blackmailed into taking their own life. - Hear, hear! 548 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,440 'I've cared for my husband for five years, 549 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:58,440 'and I saw when life changed to being a burden. 550 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,080 'Who wants to travel to Switzerland? Why should we have to? 551 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,480 'Why can't we die at home, which is where most people want to? 552 00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,720 'We are here to protect the most vulnerable in our society, 553 00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:12,880 'not to legislate to kill them. 554 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,480 'It says something for any society, 555 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,560 'the way in which they look after their most vulnerable 556 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,160 'and their elderly, and I fundamentally worry 557 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,400 'that we are starting down a path that essentially says 558 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,200 'that those lives are worth less. 559 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,560 I am a GP from Margate and I'm very concerned that this bill, 560 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,560 I think, is detrimental to this country. 561 00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,160 Essentially, if this goes through, metaphorically, on Monday morning, 562 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,880 I could cure people with my left hand and kill them with my right. 563 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,760 It is God who determines when a person should die. 564 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,600 It is God's will, isn't it? Good old God! 565 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,960 Oh, yes, oh, yes! It's the meaning of life. 566 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,760 Well, that's good for you, cos I don't believe in God, 567 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,000 cos your so-called God took my wife away. 568 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,720 'The House of Commons has voted decisively 569 00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:04,280 'against proposals to give terminally ill patients 570 00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,320 'the right to end their lives under medical supervision.' 571 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,920 'This is such a crushing defeat, it settles this matter 572 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,240 'in terms of legislation for the foreseeable future. 573 00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:30,320 'It leaves us with the status quo of one Briton per fortnight 574 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:34,240 'travelling to Switzerland to die with the help of the suicide...' 575 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:11,800 I've become suddenly very, kind of strong-willed about it. 576 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,360 I think I was just going along with Simon, 577 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,960 and I suddenly felt this isn't the right decision. 578 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,720 This isn't right for him, and he's giving mixed messages. 579 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,000 We need to explore another way. 580 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,000 And when the Assisted Dying Bill got voted down yesterday 581 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,720 I was pleased, 582 00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:36,160 and I thought it was the, kind of... 583 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,320 I am only just saying what I think. 584 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:46,040 It's a kind of vote for the sanctity of a human life, to me, 585 00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:50,400 without sounding too twee and dramatic about it. But, this... 586 00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:53,440 I want to look really, really carefully 587 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,240 at what's on offer with hospice care. 588 00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:57,360 Simon can tell me to bugger off, 589 00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,840 it's his life, but that's how I feel. 590 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:11,480 Simon was referred by his consultant at King's. 591 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,360 His first appointment was very much focusing on 592 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,800 what we could offer here at St Christopher's, 593 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,560 what sort of medical intervention we could offer. 594 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,440 If someone's breathless, for example when someone develops 595 00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,240 breathing difficulty because of diaphragm weakness, 596 00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:31,840 the first thing we can do is offer them non-invasive ventilation, 597 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,840 which is a mask that goes over the face. 598 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,160 When they breathe in, it detects that and helps by blowing air in. 599 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:40,920 But at some point, it won't be effective. 600 00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:47,000 To take away the feeling of panic or breathlessness, we give morphine. 601 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,000 If that happens to shorten life, then so be it. 602 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,040 The law and the ethics around this are very clear. 603 00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,960 We're not allowed to give drugs to end someone's life, 604 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,440 but if the aim of giving a drug is to relieve distress, 605 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,040 and that might shorten life, 606 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,240 we are ethically obliged to give that treatment. 607 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:09,720 We then talked about the fact 608 00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:13,400 that he'd taken total control over going to Switzerland. 609 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,760 But knowing that Debbie and his family didn't want him to go 610 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,040 was really sort of conflicting him. 611 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,120 He really sort of talked about Debbie... 612 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,560 wanting to do it sort of right by her. 613 00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,560 With Debbie losing Chloe two years previously, 614 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,880 the impact on her was going to be absolutely enormous. 615 00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:41,680 He was very mindful of that, 616 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,360 so that really played into his decision-making. 617 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,480 We'd been told very clearly 618 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,560 that actually the death from motor neurone disease is not a bad death. 619 00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:09,920 It's often with pneumonia. 620 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:14,680 And, actually, we're living with disability now and we're managing. 621 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:22,200 And we have nice times and difficult times and sometimes you wake up 622 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,440 and think, "God, this is dreadful, how has this happened?" 623 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,440 And other times, we're sitting laughing, 624 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,440 surrounded by family and friends. 625 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:34,560 And there's still lots of bits that are really lovely about life. 626 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:40,440 And I cannot take him to Basel 627 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,880 because I don't think it's... 628 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:45,640 One, I don't think it's the right thing to do, and two, 629 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:50,160 and perhaps most importantly, I don't believe he really wants to go. 630 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,000 You are reconsidering? 631 00:52:57,920 --> 00:52:59,640 He is, apparently. 632 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:00,680 I am. 633 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,680 'In him reconsidering, we suddenly have hope again.' 634 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:09,800 That's a real change. 635 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,440 'I thought they'd be indifferent to the timing of my demise. 636 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:22,840 'I was so wrong. 637 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,360 'If I was single, I'd be gone. Definitely.' 638 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:34,560 But I'm not single. 639 00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:37,040 And I have responsibilities to others 640 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,760 that I'm only now starting to fully understand. 641 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,200 'Tuesday, 22nd September. 642 00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:55,000 'Dear friends, we're having 643 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,120 'another one of my ludicrous games parties this Friday. 644 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,640 'Hoop a cone will be a featured event. 645 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,920 'And women have all been instructed to wear trousers for the tree swing. 646 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,680 'Tim, on account of your height and bulk, 647 00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,800 'you are hereby duly appointed CBTO - 648 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,360 'Chief Bins Transportation Officer. 649 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,480 'Congratulations upon your elevation to high office.' 650 00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,240 Here? 651 00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:33,680 Here? 652 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:54,840 He's still taking part in things. 653 00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,840 He's very competitive. 654 00:54:58,160 --> 00:54:59,800 This wins it. 655 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:03,200 Yes. 656 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:06,920 Yes! 657 00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,480 He can still write. 658 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,000 When his writing slows down, we don't know what will happen. 659 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,400 But at the moment, he's doing very well, actually, 660 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,760 and getting so much support from everybody. 661 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:23,000 He's always been very sociable, and, in the years, it's paid off. 662 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:27,200 He's got all his daft friends that have grown up very supportive. 663 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,880 - It's the most uncomfortable bloody seat. - Are you on? 664 00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:33,080 - I suppose so, yes. - Right, do you want left hand or right hand? 665 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:37,000 I think left hand, cos I'm going to hold on tight with my right hand. 666 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,160 'It feels like a stay of execution. That's exactly what it feels like. 667 00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,840 'I still value his friendship, I still enjoy being in his company.' 668 00:55:54,400 --> 00:56:00,320 'When we were children, there was always some competition going on. 669 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:07,760 'I think he's still enjoying life. 670 00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:12,440 'He laughs so much.' 671 00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,840 He writes his texts or his notes, 672 00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,960 and he's shaking with laughter at his own jokes. 673 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:28,920 Whenever I see him, when I come home, I get in the car 674 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:33,120 and I just think, "What a lovely day! What a happy house!" 675 00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,160 Right, are you saying anything for me, you guys? 676 00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:50,800 Sunday. 677 00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,800 Nonsuch Park, the sun is shining. 678 00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,480 'Debbie doesn't want him to go to Switzerland. 679 00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,200 'It's given him a way to reconsider. 680 00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,720 'Analysing it day-by-day is probably a good thing. 681 00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:16,600 'But I think, in the end, it has to be his choice. 682 00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,800 'I don't think I do always know what he's feeling.' 683 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:36,240 'I think the games are a way of Simon deflecting attention. 684 00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,640 'What is Simon going to be when he can't communicate? 685 00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:49,680 'And I wouldn't like him to let himself get to that stage 686 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,040 'and then think,' 687 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:57,240 "Oh, no, now, I'm hating everything, but I'm sort of trapped." 688 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,760 'I'll be totally unable to communicate soon. 689 00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:48,680 'It's terrifying to think my only form of interaction will be gone. 690 00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,720 'Losing my voice is bad, but none... 691 00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,960 'None is terrible.' 692 00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,000 "Debbie Binner wrote. 693 00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,320 "Simon Binner - Urgent. 694 00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:18,280 "Dear Erika, Simon is sitting next to me after a terrifying morning. 695 00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,720 "He has tried to hang himself. 696 00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,920 "We have calmed him down. 697 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:26,240 "But now, he is saying he needs to die now 698 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,760 "and wants to come as soon as possible. 699 00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,600 "This Friday, 16th October, at the least. 700 00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:35,880 "Please, can you advise if it is possible. 701 00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:37,800 "He says he's desperate. 702 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,400 "Debbie Binner. Kind regards." 703 00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:48,320 Yes, and I have told her that 16th October is not possible. 704 00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:56,600 And he promised me, by writing and by Debbie telling me, 705 00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:00,280 that he would accept to come on Monday 19th 706 01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:04,080 and he promised that he would not do something like that any more. 707 01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:12,120 Until this happened to Binner, 708 01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:15,800 I never really thought that you could be so frightened of not dying. 709 01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:20,120 And for Binns to have done what he did yesterday... 710 01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:22,120 sort of demonstrates - 711 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,280 given he's not an unthinking or cruel person - 712 01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:30,200 sort of demonstrates the absolute horror that he feels, 713 01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,320 that, I think, you know, he was so overwhelmed 714 01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,800 that he kind of lost the plot, in a way, 715 01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,480 and did something which I think is... 716 01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,280 You know, he was properly sorry about. 717 01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:53,240 I think somehow we've missed those moments of unendurable tragedy. 718 01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:57,120 And...you know, you can just forget that 719 01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,600 because you just see him 720 01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:01,760 as funny and upbeat and... 721 01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,160 you know, hilarious. 722 01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:10,000 There's going to be a small farewell lunch party, 723 01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,480 which Debbie's sent a card... 724 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,520 A sort of... 725 01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:18,160 Given where they are, quite a jolly note about...on... 726 01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:19,760 on Friday. 727 01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,120 "Dearest friends, our precious time is moving fast. 728 01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:30,680 "As I'm sure you all know, 729 01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,480 "my precious Simon is going to Switzerland to end his life 730 01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:35,000 "on Monday, 19th October. 731 01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:37,760 "We've had one hell of a week. 732 01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:39,600 "And in light of recent developments, 733 01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,120 "Switzerland seems the kindest and best option. 734 01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,560 "Simon has made it very clear that he's had enough." 735 01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:53,560 "Please know that you will find us beaten, 736 01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:55,920 "battle-weary and bruised on Friday. 737 01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,680 "But we love you all and want to celebrate one last time 738 01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:02,160 "in a gentle, more low-key way than before. 739 01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,560 "Love, hugs and strengths, Debbie." 740 01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,120 Are you scared? 741 01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:29,520 No. 742 01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:32,680 No. 743 01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,280 He's not in a good state now, 744 01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:09,160 and I know, before, I fought and battled so hard, 745 01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:14,560 but he's made it very clear that he does not want to carry on his life. 746 01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,280 I feel furious, um... 747 01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,880 Tender. Loving. 748 01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,680 Um...protective. 749 01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:29,600 Um... 750 01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,560 So pleased I married him. 751 01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:35,800 And I'll miss him terribly. 752 01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,960 It's terribly sad, terribly sad. 753 01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:47,360 And, um... And we love each other. 754 01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:48,640 It's, um... 755 01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:51,360 But I think, at the end of the day, 756 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,120 if you love someone, 757 01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:56,480 you have to do what they want to do. 758 01:03:58,080 --> 01:03:59,240 And... 759 01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:04,000 And I think we've got to the point where, when Simon does die, 760 01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:05,320 it's not... 761 01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:09,760 It won't...take away what we've had, 762 01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:12,400 it will be there still 763 01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,880 and I think I'm so glad I met him. 764 01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,760 I said goodbye to him at the party. 765 01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,040 He was lying down, tired, in the room 766 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:59,120 and when he came to say goodbye to me, we had a good cry. 767 01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,560 And Elizabeth said, "Well, he didn't want to cry 768 01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,000 "when he was saying goodbye to us." 769 01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:09,760 He wanted to keep his act going all the time, didn't he? 770 01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:12,520 So, we both cried. 771 01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:16,800 Elizabeth said you could understand 772 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,320 why he didn't invite me to Switzerland. 773 01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,400 I haven't been on a plane for a long time 774 01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:23,360 and my balance isn't all that good. 775 01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:26,120 But I was quite looking forward to going. 776 01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:30,000 I thought, "It was MY son, I had him, and..." 777 01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:37,120 I keep thinking, "Well, I can't get another son, can I?" 778 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:04,120 'Hello, Five Musketeers. You can now print off your boarding passes. 779 01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:11,640 'Passengers - Debbie, Mike, Elizabeth, Dr Sandberg and Will.' 780 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:15,320 'Thank you for waiting, at this time, 781 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,640 'will all remaining customers please board now...' 782 01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,000 Suicide in this country is not in offence. 783 01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,960 The law is very clear about what is the offence, 784 01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:33,320 and the offence is assisting or encouraging 785 01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:35,560 somebody to commit suicide. 786 01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:38,120 If you take somebody to Dignitas, for example, 787 01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:40,880 you arrange the flights, you put them on the plane, 788 01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:43,600 you take them there, that's the sort of assistance 789 01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:45,720 that could be an offence under the act. 790 01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:49,960 Maximum penalty is up to 14 years. 791 01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:55,080 But it's a matter of each individual case and circumstance. 792 01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:01,800 We'll take into account the clear and express intention, if there is, 793 01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:06,960 of the individual, the compassionate nature of the people who assisted. 794 01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,120 We will weigh up and decide 795 01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:12,480 whether or not that means we should prosecute or not. 796 01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:02,840 There's a handle just here. 797 01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:30,440 The person only knows the last evening 798 01:08:30,440 --> 01:08:32,280 if it is definitely accepted. 799 01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,600 - Hello, Mrs Binner? - Hello, very nice to meet you. 800 01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,240 - Nice to meet you. - Come in. 801 01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:44,040 'Simon must convince the second doctor, also.' 802 01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:48,160 Hello. Hello, Mr Binner. 803 01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:52,280 I'm a GP working with Erika. 804 01:08:52,280 --> 01:08:53,680 OK. 805 01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:05,600 There is no fear for dying. 806 01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:12,080 - In the UK, he tried to end his own life. - Uh-huh. 807 01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:17,320 So, we didn't really realise until that point how desperate he was. 808 01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:19,240 I believe that. 809 01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,560 That was so horrifying. 810 01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:26,640 You know what will happen tomorrow, what's going on? 811 01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:31,280 Erika explained everything, how it works, also with the infusion. 812 01:09:31,280 --> 01:09:34,440 - Yes, so, he will feel nothing? - No. 813 01:09:34,440 --> 01:09:37,840 - Just like going to sleep with an anaesthetic? - Yes. 814 01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,800 But you know that when you let this thing run, 815 01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,640 that you go to die, not to sleep. 816 01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:49,440 And you must be clear in mind that you are. 817 01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:55,120 You don't make me the impression of depression. 818 01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:56,600 No. 819 01:09:56,600 --> 01:09:58,400 And it doesn't look... 820 01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,680 You were deciding yourself. 821 01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:04,280 So, it's your decision and not from outside. 822 01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:07,960 There are important things I have to write down for legal reasons. 823 01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:10,280 - You have to assess, yes. - The assessment. 824 01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:11,920 So... 825 01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:16,800 ..can I do something for you, otherwise, 826 01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:18,960 than to go and write my report? 827 01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:22,840 For me, it's OK. 828 01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:49,280 It hasn't been a laugh, it's been a belly laugh. 829 01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:51,200 - Laugh out loud. - Yes. 830 01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:53,960 You always make people laugh, 831 01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:57,640 people like Auntie Margaret, and Simon would start. 832 01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:00,560 We'd sit at a table like this, I didn't need to say anything, 833 01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:04,680 Sarah didn't need to say anything, cos the floor show is over here. 834 01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:10,720 You've always been such a lovely brother. 835 01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:22,440 Thank you, Binns. 836 01:11:25,200 --> 01:11:27,560 - Top bloke. - Top banana. 837 01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:56,120 Simon will take off from his hotel with his family and friends. 838 01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:59,600 He will come to the place where we do the assisted dying 839 01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,400 in the city of Basel. 840 01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:05,440 And he will have to fill in some forms 841 01:12:05,440 --> 01:12:08,800 because the authority of Basel want him to sign, 842 01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:12,000 the day that he is dying, that he really has been 843 01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:16,600 thinking about it well again, slept over it another night. 844 01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:22,320 I want the family to be there to show acceptance, 845 01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:25,720 to show understanding what Simon wants to do, 846 01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,000 and then Simon has to do it 847 01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:31,160 at the moment that he wants to do it. 848 01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:34,480 And he has the possibility to say no and go back home 849 01:12:34,480 --> 01:12:36,920 until the very last moment. 850 01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:40,760 Even when the medicine is in the bag already 851 01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:43,080 and the perfusion is closed, 852 01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:46,400 and he, all of a sudden, is afraid of opening it, 853 01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:50,880 no problem, nobody's angry, he could go back home any time. 854 01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:32,920 We hang this up. 855 01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:46,600 We have to prove to the authorities that this person has opened the drip 856 01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:51,800 himself or herself, and you can only prove that by doing a little film. 857 01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:05,560 Yeah? OK, so we do the questions now. 858 01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:10,800 I know that you cannot speak because of your motor neurone disease. 859 01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:13,880 This is why I will ask the questions 860 01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:18,440 in a manner that you can just show with your head yes or no. 861 01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:23,040 Is it right that your name is Simon Binner? 862 01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:26,120 That is right. 863 01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:32,120 Is it right that you have been born on 2nd November, 1957? 864 01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:33,520 Yes. 865 01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:39,520 And you have written that you've come here to lifecircle 866 01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:44,280 to end your life because you have this very bad motor neurone disease, 867 01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:48,160 very progressed, is that right? 868 01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:54,400 Yes. I have put the perfusion into your brain. 869 01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:58,320 There is a medication in the perfusion now. 870 01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:02,720 And I have told you that you will die if you open it. 871 01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:06,600 Do you know that you will die if you open this perfusion? 872 01:15:06,600 --> 01:15:08,720 Yes, yes. 873 01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,920 So, Simon, it is now... 874 01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:13,680 What time is it? 875 01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:16,240 9.38. 876 01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:22,120 If you would like to die, you are allowed to open the perfusion now. 877 01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:36,080 'Hi, Debbie. It's Simon here. 878 01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:40,080 'I've loved you very, very much, Debbie. 879 01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:44,880 'I haven't deserved you, or Hannah or Zoe. 880 01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,960 'Such loving and caring young ladies. 881 01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:52,520 'And I've been such a grumpy Gruffalo for much of the time. 882 01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:55,760 'But I really love you, Debbie. 883 01:15:57,000 --> 01:16:00,120 'We've had such a fun and laughter-filled marriage. 884 01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:03,160 'We were really blessed to have found one another. 885 01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:08,680 'The one blessing of a slow decline is that we've had time 886 01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:11,600 'to speak about things over ten long months, 887 01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:13,680 'not like losing me in a car smash. 888 01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:18,000 'We've really said everything that needs to be said. 889 01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:22,600 'You've been a truly fantastic wife to me, Debbie. 890 01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:27,000 'And I know that you've loved me and I've loved you.' 891 01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:31,680 Anyway, time and tide wait for no man. 892 01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:33,840 I love you very much, Debbie. 893 01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:36,560 Goodbye. 894 01:18:39,480 --> 01:18:45,680 I remember Simon dying and I know he played a tape, 895 01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:47,680 but I don't remember the tape. 896 01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:54,000 I remember the tenderness I felt towards him. 897 01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:56,400 I got him ready in the morning. 898 01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:58,280 He was still really, really keen 899 01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:01,160 that his cuff links were put on properly 900 01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:04,080 and that his shoes were done up properly 901 01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:05,640 and I found that very touching, 902 01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:09,560 and it's something I really loved about him, that he was so smart 903 01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:12,760 and I vaguely remember being on a plane... 904 01:19:14,480 --> 01:19:18,200 I remember Erika and that's about it. 905 01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:20,480 Yeah, big chunks just kind of... 906 01:19:20,480 --> 01:19:23,240 cos we were just trying to get through it for him. 907 01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:28,760 For him, I think he went to Switzerland 908 01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,120 at exactly the right time for him. 909 01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:37,880 But, for us, what we had to go through, to end his life, 910 01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:40,640 it was extraordinarily difficult. 911 01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:43,400 And I feel I'm still in shock and trauma. 912 01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:47,840 Somebody's there one minute and then not the next. 913 01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:51,040 And I can't... 914 01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:54,600 I haven't got the words to express about how big a deal it is. 915 01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:58,200 I'm angry, 916 01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,240 I'm missing him, 917 01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,200 I yearn for him. 918 01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:08,000 I'm guilty that somehow I couldn't make his life nice enough, 919 01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,240 you know, and maybe if I'd worked harder and made it easier, 920 01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:15,040 and hadn't snapped at him that time, or got this when he wanted, 921 01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,120 maybe he wouldn't have wanted to go, 922 01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:19,480 and I don't think any of that's logical, 923 01:20:19,480 --> 01:20:23,160 but I think it leaves you with those kind of feelings. 924 01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:24,320 "Did I do enough?" 925 01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:28,120 Maybe that's what I'm struggling with - did I do enough? 926 01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:33,400 Was it...? Did I do enough to make his life worthwhile 927 01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:38,480 when he had done so much for me, really, over the years, 928 01:20:38,480 --> 01:20:42,080 and helped me look after my daughter and all those kind of things. 929 01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:46,160 Maybe, that's the difficulty of what I'm struggling with. 930 01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:04,840 "I cannot begin to feel..." 931 01:21:04,840 --> 01:21:08,280 A lot of people said to me, "I think you're very brave." 932 01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:10,000 Well, I'm not very brave, 933 01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:15,000 I don't have...the option of being brave or not. 934 01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,920 Then some people say he is brave. 935 01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:20,640 And Elizabeth and I were discussing this 936 01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:22,840 and saying, "Yes, he was brave." 937 01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:24,720 But we have to remember 938 01:21:24,720 --> 01:21:28,160 that these other people were brave that have stuck it out, as well. 939 01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:36,120 You see, I'm mourning him as my baby boy. 940 01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:41,480 He wrote me something on a piece of paper. 941 01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:54,960 "It's sad, but it's for the best. Thank you for being my mum." 942 01:22:16,480 --> 01:22:21,840 The man I came to know was, as you will also remember him, 943 01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:23,840 a force of nature. 944 01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:26,520 Incisive, articulate, 945 01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:29,000 bursting with energy. 946 01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:33,400 He never wallowed in self-pity, he was absolutely fantastic to the end. 947 01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:34,880 He was a magnificent man. 948 01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:37,000 He was magnificent to the very end. 949 01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:39,120 And he wrote to me just before he died, 950 01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:42,840 warning me that I would never find another friend like him. 951 01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:45,720 I think we can say, without fear of contradiction, 952 01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:48,520 that none of us will ever know anyone like him. 953 01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:51,960 Si Binner, as he will always be known to me, 954 01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,880 was a guy from a slightly different planet. 955 01:22:56,200 --> 01:22:59,680 I'm missing the daft bugger. A friend indeed. 956 01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:06,760 Don't Know Why By The Essex Green 957 01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:16,160 # If your silver wing is stuck on horizons 958 01:23:16,160 --> 01:23:18,720 # Catch it when it goes 959 01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:22,480 # Or they'll take a piece and pull back the curtains 960 01:23:22,480 --> 01:23:25,360 # And there's nothing left but your clothes 961 01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:27,040 # I don't know why... # 962 01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:28,120 Up. 963 01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:31,520 # I don't know why I don't know why you stay 964 01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:35,760 # No, I don't know why I don't know why 965 01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:38,440 # I don't know why you stay 966 01:23:38,440 --> 01:23:40,280 # No... # 967 01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:53,280 If you'd like to have your say 968 01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:56,000 about some of the issues around assisted suicide, 969 01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:58,920 visit the Open University's online discussion hub. 970 01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:02,240 Go to... 971 01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:05,080 and follow the links to the Open University.