1
00:00:24,224 --> 00:00:26,397
If anybody gets up,
they're dead.

2
00:00:26,426 --> 00:00:27,905
Anybody moves, they're dead.

3
00:00:27,927 --> 00:00:30,635
Anybody makes a sound
before I leave this movie,

4
00:00:30,663 --> 00:00:31,937
they're fucking dead.

5
00:00:31,965 --> 00:00:34,775
My name is John S. Wojtowicz.

6
00:00:34,801 --> 00:00:37,873
You can call me The Dog
because that's my nickname.

7
00:00:39,172 --> 00:00:42,745
Hi. I'm Jeanne Parr,
and this is John Wojtowicz.

8
00:00:42,776 --> 00:00:44,483
Right now, he's in jail.

9
00:00:44,511 --> 00:00:46,752
It was 5 1/2 years ago
when he attempted

10
00:00:46,780 --> 00:00:48,782
to rob a Brooklyn bank
to get money

11
00:00:48,815 --> 00:00:51,694
for his lover's
sex change operation.

12
00:00:51,718 --> 00:00:54,130
They made a movie about John.

13
00:00:54,154 --> 00:00:55,656
It's called "Dog Day Afternoon,"

14
00:00:55,688 --> 00:00:58,965
and Al Pacino
played the part of John.

15
00:00:58,992 --> 00:01:00,835
This is John's lover Liz Eden,

16
00:01:00,860 --> 00:01:03,397
who wanted
that sex change operation.

17
00:01:03,430 --> 00:01:06,968
Well, she got it, and today
she's living happily as a woman.

18
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,810
John is still in jail,
and we'll reveal

19
00:01:09,836 --> 00:01:12,544
for the first time in
my exclusive interview with him,

20
00:01:12,572 --> 00:01:15,178
his side of this very dramatic
love story.

21
00:01:15,208 --> 00:01:17,882
So stay with us. We're live.

22
00:01:17,911 --> 00:01:21,017
That's the abbreviated version.

23
00:01:42,602 --> 00:01:44,946
OK. The reason I call myself
a pervert

24
00:01:44,971 --> 00:01:47,178
is that I'm sexually oriented.

25
00:01:47,207 --> 00:01:49,744
It's very easy because you
got to look at it this way.

26
00:01:49,776 --> 00:01:54,486
Most people drink.
Most people smoke.

27
00:01:54,514 --> 00:01:57,950
A lot of people do drugs,
and they have sex.

28
00:01:57,951 --> 00:02:00,397
So they have all
these outlets, OK?

29
00:02:00,420 --> 00:02:02,422
I don't smoke. I don't drink.

30
00:02:02,455 --> 00:02:05,402
I don't do drugs.
I don't gamble.

31
00:02:05,425 --> 00:02:08,804
So I'm an angel... ha ha!...
but I got horns,

32
00:02:08,828 --> 00:02:11,934
OK, and the trouble is,
when you got horns,

33
00:02:11,965 --> 00:02:15,913
you only can do one thing, OK.
And that's fuck.

34
00:02:19,606 --> 00:02:22,553
I consider myself a romantic.

35
00:02:22,575 --> 00:02:25,351
There's sex, and there's love.
I'm a lover.

36
00:02:25,378 --> 00:02:27,824
When I met Ernie
for the first time,

37
00:02:27,847 --> 00:02:31,385
it was love at first sight,
and because I loved him,

38
00:02:31,417 --> 00:02:36,093
on August 22, 1972,
I had to do something.

39
00:02:36,122 --> 00:02:39,331
All in all,
August 22, 1972,

40
00:02:39,359 --> 00:02:41,999
was a summer day just like
any other summer day...

41
00:02:42,028 --> 00:02:45,601
hot, humid, with everyone
trying to get a bit of relief

42
00:02:45,632 --> 00:02:48,545
from the oppressive
heat and humidity,

43
00:02:48,568 --> 00:02:50,138
and then it happened.

44
00:02:50,170 --> 00:02:52,411
At 2:58 P.M. that afternoon,

45
00:02:52,438 --> 00:02:54,076
two men entered a bank
in Brooklyn

46
00:02:54,107 --> 00:02:56,187
and began what turned out to be
the most sensational,

47
00:02:56,209 --> 00:02:59,053
most bizarre,
most unbelievable bank robbery

48
00:02:59,078 --> 00:03:02,184
in the history of crime,
and before they were through,

49
00:03:02,215 --> 00:03:04,252
what should have been
an ordinary bank robbery

50
00:03:04,284 --> 00:03:08,061
turned into a 3-ring circus.

51
00:03:16,629 --> 00:03:24,629
Nobody would ever did
what I did.

52
00:03:24,871 --> 00:03:26,839
Nobody would ever rob a bank

53
00:03:26,873 --> 00:03:30,218
to cutoff a guy's dick to give
him a sex change operation.

54
00:03:30,243 --> 00:03:32,189
That's why they made
a movie about it.

55
00:03:33,813 --> 00:03:35,622
You know something, people?

56
00:03:35,648 --> 00:03:36,688
You're gonna be remembered

57
00:03:36,716 --> 00:03:38,593
the rest of your
lives for the day

58
00:03:38,618 --> 00:03:40,996
you got held up and kidnapped.

59
00:03:41,020 --> 00:03:42,795
We made history here.

60
00:03:45,525 --> 00:03:47,027
We did it.

61
00:03:47,060 --> 00:03:49,404
AI Pacino.

62
00:03:51,831 --> 00:03:53,640
A true story.

63
00:03:54,667 --> 00:03:56,510
OK.
What you got to understand

64
00:03:56,536 --> 00:04:00,245
is that in my lifetime,
I have had 4 wives.

65
00:04:00,273 --> 00:04:03,277
I also have 23 girlfriends

66
00:04:03,309 --> 00:04:05,346
because, remember,
I'm a pervert.

67
00:04:05,378 --> 00:04:08,848
They all know each other
because I'm like Prudential.

68
00:04:08,881 --> 00:04:10,827
I'm the rock, OK,

69
00:04:10,850 --> 00:04:13,660
and I give a piece of myself
to everybody,

70
00:04:13,686 --> 00:04:15,131
and you go,
"How can you do that?"

71
00:04:15,154 --> 00:04:17,896
I says, because, idiot...
it's very simple...

72
00:04:17,924 --> 00:04:20,768
you can love
more than one person.

73
00:04:20,793 --> 00:04:22,833
One of
the strangest hijack attempts

74
00:04:22,862 --> 00:04:25,103
to date began when two gunmen
held up a bank

75
00:04:25,131 --> 00:04:26,906
in Brooklyn, New York.

76
00:04:26,933 --> 00:04:28,810
The gunmen got $29,000,

77
00:04:28,835 --> 00:04:30,906
but before they could leave,
police moved in,

78
00:04:30,937 --> 00:04:32,883
and the bank robbers
seized 8 hostages.

79
00:04:32,905 --> 00:04:35,181
With his partner inside
pointing a shotgun

80
00:04:35,208 --> 00:04:37,586
at 8 employees, the other robber
spent much of his time

81
00:04:37,610 --> 00:04:40,489
pacing outside the bank,
either negotiating with police

82
00:04:40,513 --> 00:04:42,356
or screaming at them
to back off.

83
00:04:42,382 --> 00:04:44,191
Police, in turn,
tried to keep the pressure down

84
00:04:44,217 --> 00:04:46,663
by ordering the hundreds
of spectators to move.

85
00:04:46,686 --> 00:04:48,666
All right, fellas.
You got to move back.

86
00:04:48,688 --> 00:04:50,065
The more visible
bank robber

87
00:04:50,089 --> 00:04:51,693
is 27-year old John Wojtowicz,

88
00:04:51,724 --> 00:04:53,294
an out-of-work
New York City resident

89
00:04:53,326 --> 00:04:55,465
and an admitted homosexual
who left his wife

90
00:04:55,495 --> 00:04:58,101
and two children 3 years ago.

91
00:04:58,131 --> 00:04:59,542
That day,
I was with my girlfriend

92
00:04:59,565 --> 00:05:01,340
and my two kids
on the beach in Rockaway.

93
00:05:01,501 --> 00:05:05,108
It was a hot, hot day... oh, God...
and I'm listening to the radio,

94
00:05:05,138 --> 00:05:08,176
and I hear,
"an admitted homosexual

95
00:05:08,207 --> 00:05:10,710
has just robbed a bank
in Brooklyn, Avenue P,"

96
00:05:10,743 --> 00:05:12,416
and they said his name
and everything,

97
00:05:12,445 --> 00:05:14,425
and I'm listening to it.

98
00:05:14,447 --> 00:05:16,518
I'm listening to it
at the beach.

99
00:05:16,549 --> 00:05:18,324
I listened to it on the train.

100
00:05:18,351 --> 00:05:20,297
I went home
and watched it on TV.

101
00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,392
I'm listening and listening.
I didn't hear Wojtowicz.

102
00:05:23,423 --> 00:05:25,528
I heard John something.

103
00:05:25,558 --> 00:05:27,071
So I says to my girlfriend,

104
00:05:27,093 --> 00:05:28,470
"That sounds like my name,
doesn't it?"

105
00:05:28,494 --> 00:05:30,531
She starts laughing.
We went in the back yard.

106
00:05:30,563 --> 00:05:33,976
We had a barbeque, not realizing
it's Johnny all the time.

107
00:06:45,037 --> 00:06:47,176
After I graduated
high school,

108
00:06:47,206 --> 00:06:50,619
I met my female wife
called Carmen Ann. Bifulco.

109
00:06:52,311 --> 00:06:54,791
♪ We may never pass
this way again... ♪

110
00:06:54,814 --> 00:06:56,487
She worked for Chase Manhattan,
as I did.

111
00:06:56,516 --> 00:06:58,996
So we're your friends
at Chase Manhattan.

112
00:06:59,018 --> 00:07:03,524
I was a teller, and it's what
I call love at first sight.

113
00:07:03,556 --> 00:07:04,626
♪ If we never chance
to meet again... ♪

114
00:07:04,657 --> 00:07:07,365
He called me up
to go on a date.

115
00:07:07,393 --> 00:07:09,930
He picked me up with
two other girls, and he says,

116
00:07:09,962 --> 00:07:11,999
"One of you is going to be
my lucky bride in the future."

117
00:07:12,031 --> 00:07:13,908
I thought the guy
was crazy already.

118
00:07:17,770 --> 00:07:19,977
Then we started
talking to each other

119
00:07:20,006 --> 00:07:23,180
and dating, and then,
boom, I got drafted.

120
00:07:23,209 --> 00:07:27,157
I'm a Goldwater Republican,
which means I'm conservative,

121
00:07:27,180 --> 00:07:29,592
which means I'm also
a warmonger,

122
00:07:29,615 --> 00:07:32,027
So I was willing to go
to the war and fight in the war.

123
00:07:33,519 --> 00:07:38,195
I would
remind you that extremism

124
00:07:38,224 --> 00:07:43,401
in the defense of liberty
is no vice.

125
00:07:48,801 --> 00:07:52,305
When then I went
to basic training,

126
00:07:52,338 --> 00:07:54,875
that's when I had my first
gay experience.

127
00:07:54,907 --> 00:07:57,148
I met a hillbilly
by the name of Wilbur.

128
00:07:57,176 --> 00:08:00,419
One night, I was dreaming
that I was getting a blow job,

129
00:08:00,446 --> 00:08:02,392
and instead,
it was the real thing,

130
00:08:02,415 --> 00:08:04,895
and Wilbur was blowing me,
and just before I came,

131
00:08:04,917 --> 00:08:07,420
I woke up, and I go,
"What are you doing?"

132
00:08:07,453 --> 00:08:09,626
and he said,
"Well, doesn't it feel good?"

133
00:08:09,655 --> 00:08:11,396
and I go, "Yeah. It feels good."

134
00:08:11,424 --> 00:08:14,234
He said, "Well?"
I said, "Well, keep on going,"

135
00:08:14,260 --> 00:08:16,240
and then we kept having
this relationship

136
00:08:16,262 --> 00:08:18,173
because he blew great.

137
00:08:18,197 --> 00:08:19,904
He was like a summer breeze.
Ha ha!

138
00:08:29,709 --> 00:08:34,715
I went to Vietnam
in October of 1966.

139
00:08:34,747 --> 00:08:37,990
I first went to Saigon,

140
00:08:38,017 --> 00:08:41,658
and a few months later,
they shipped me up to Da Nang,

141
00:08:41,687 --> 00:08:43,724
OK, up by the DMZ,

142
00:08:43,756 --> 00:08:45,736
and that's where
we got into action...

143
00:09:00,006 --> 00:09:04,079
and then in February of 1967,

144
00:09:04,110 --> 00:09:06,386
there was the first
rocket attack

145
00:09:06,412 --> 00:09:08,289
on the Da Nang Air Force Base,

146
00:09:08,314 --> 00:09:12,160
and 90% of my fellow soldiers
were killed.

147
00:09:12,184 --> 00:09:14,255
So what happened is,

148
00:09:14,287 --> 00:09:18,702
I went from being a Goldwater
conservative in 1964

149
00:09:18,724 --> 00:09:23,332
to a McCarthy peacenik in 1968

150
00:09:23,362 --> 00:09:25,342
because if we're not
gonna win the war,

151
00:09:25,364 --> 00:09:27,844
why should all these young kids
get killed and die for nothing?

152
00:09:27,867 --> 00:09:29,938
We lost 50,000 people over there

153
00:09:29,969 --> 00:09:31,710
because they wouldn't
let us win it.

154
00:09:31,737 --> 00:09:33,182
So if you're not
going to win it,

155
00:09:33,205 --> 00:09:34,582
let's get out and end it.

156
00:09:42,615 --> 00:09:49,157
I married Carmen
in 1967 in October.

157
00:09:49,188 --> 00:09:52,067
We wanted to get married
before I went to Vietnam,

158
00:09:52,091 --> 00:09:54,833
but my in-laws said no

159
00:09:54,860 --> 00:09:57,568
because they were hoping
I didn't make it back.

160
00:09:57,597 --> 00:10:02,034
Soto disappoint my in-laws,
I lived through the Vietnam War

161
00:10:02,068 --> 00:10:03,411
and came back and married her.

162
00:10:03,436 --> 00:10:06,110
My father didn't
want me to get married at all.

163
00:10:06,138 --> 00:10:09,915
My relatives despised him,
but I got married.

164
00:10:12,645 --> 00:10:15,091
These are the pictures
from my wedding...

165
00:10:15,114 --> 00:10:17,424
October 21, 1967.

166
00:10:18,684 --> 00:10:23,360
Got married at St. Rita's Church
in Brooklyn.

167
00:10:23,389 --> 00:10:25,391
The whole neighborhood
was there.

168
00:10:25,424 --> 00:10:28,496
♪ Forever and ever ♪

169
00:10:28,527 --> 00:10:30,939
♪ Want to let you know ♪

170
00:10:33,232 --> 00:10:34,438
There was a big thing
at the end.

171
00:10:34,467 --> 00:10:35,775
It was terrible.

172
00:10:35,801 --> 00:10:38,577
My priest wanted to annul
the wedding that night.

173
00:10:38,604 --> 00:10:39,947
Annul it.

174
00:10:39,972 --> 00:10:41,849
The night of the wedding,
we almost broke up

175
00:10:41,874 --> 00:10:44,047
because we had a fight
over the wedding money.

176
00:10:44,076 --> 00:10:48,058
The father wanted me to pay
for part of the wedding.

177
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,822
So we got into a big fight,
me and Carmen, that night.

178
00:10:50,850 --> 00:10:52,761
So I took the money
and just threw it at him

179
00:10:52,785 --> 00:10:54,662
and walked the fuck out.

180
00:11:23,449 --> 00:11:25,554
Ha ha ha!

181
00:11:25,584 --> 00:11:28,997
I went home one night.
Everything was gone.

182
00:11:29,021 --> 00:11:32,161
My kitchen set was gone.
My engagement gifts were gone.

183
00:11:32,191 --> 00:11:37,402
"I left. Go to your mother."
That was it. Ha!

184
00:11:37,430 --> 00:11:42,778
Carmen and I broke up
June 20,1969.

185
00:11:42,802 --> 00:11:46,238
That's when the first man walked
on the moon, Neil Armstrong,

186
00:11:46,272 --> 00:11:51,585
and then they had the Stonewall
riots on June 26, 1969,

187
00:11:51,610 --> 00:11:54,682
and that's what they call the
birth of the gay movement, OK?

188
00:11:54,714 --> 00:11:57,524
So the gay movement happened
at the same time

189
00:11:57,550 --> 00:12:00,929
that the guy walked on the moon
and I walked on Carmen.

190
00:12:00,953 --> 00:12:05,629
So it logically follows that
that's where I would wind up.

191
00:12:05,658 --> 00:12:09,196
Homosexuals who
acknowledge their homosexuality

192
00:12:09,228 --> 00:12:12,437
and pattern their lives
accordingly are known as gay,

193
00:12:12,465 --> 00:12:14,877
and the gay liberation movement
is challenging

194
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:17,972
a society that abhors
homosexuality.

195
00:12:18,003 --> 00:12:20,483
The Gay Activist Alliance
is the largest

196
00:12:20,506 --> 00:12:23,646
and most vocal
of several homosexual groups.

197
00:12:23,676 --> 00:12:25,553
I got interested
in the gay movement

198
00:12:25,578 --> 00:12:27,353
after the Stonewall riots.

199
00:12:27,379 --> 00:12:30,656
So what happened is, I joined
the Gay Activist Alliance.

200
00:12:30,683 --> 00:12:33,254
We used to meet
in different locations.

201
00:12:33,285 --> 00:12:35,697
Then finally, they got
their own headquarters,

202
00:12:35,721 --> 00:12:38,531
which was called the Firehouse,

203
00:12:38,557 --> 00:12:42,334
and it was on Wooster Street
over in the Village.

204
00:12:44,463 --> 00:12:46,204
The Gay Activist Alliance

205
00:12:46,232 --> 00:12:48,178
holds dances
every Saturday night

206
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:49,611
at its headquarters,

207
00:12:49,635 --> 00:12:51,842
an old firehouse
in Greenwich Village.

208
00:12:51,871 --> 00:12:54,283
Upwards of 1,000 attend.

209
00:12:54,306 --> 00:12:57,287
Many would not appear
in this film.

210
00:12:57,309 --> 00:12:59,687
Freedom of sexual expression
is as much an issue

211
00:12:59,712 --> 00:13:03,717
of the gay movement
as civil and legal rights are.

212
00:13:03,749 --> 00:13:06,320
Gay people
want to be themselves,

213
00:13:06,352 --> 00:13:08,559
flirt, hold hands, kiss,

214
00:13:08,587 --> 00:13:12,831
and talk openly about sex
just as heterosexuals do.

215
00:13:12,858 --> 00:13:15,634
I was a member
of the entertainment committee.

216
00:13:15,661 --> 00:13:17,937
So I would meet and greet
new gay people

217
00:13:17,963 --> 00:13:19,704
coming into the scene.

218
00:13:19,732 --> 00:13:22,406
I could have sex with them
quicker than anybody else

219
00:13:22,434 --> 00:13:24,414
because they were just
coming out,

220
00:13:24,436 --> 00:13:27,349
and in those days,
we did a lot of getting down.

221
00:13:27,373 --> 00:13:30,547
You got to understand that
the thing about the gay movement

222
00:13:30,576 --> 00:13:34,422
is that it was more
sexually driven than anything

223
00:13:34,446 --> 00:13:36,790
because anybody can be straight,

224
00:13:36,816 --> 00:13:40,889
but it takes somebody special
to be gay.

225
00:13:45,524 --> 00:13:48,664
OK. Now, you're now entering
Christopher Street Park,

226
00:13:48,694 --> 00:13:51,334
where gays from
all over the world come

227
00:13:51,363 --> 00:13:53,969
to see the famous statues

228
00:13:53,999 --> 00:13:56,411
that are supposed to represent
the gay movement.

229
00:13:56,435 --> 00:14:02,784
OK. These two statues right here
represent gay males, OK?

230
00:14:02,808 --> 00:14:05,948
The only problem is that
a lot of black gays

231
00:14:05,978 --> 00:14:10,290
and a lot of Spanish gays
hate these two statues

232
00:14:10,316 --> 00:14:13,388
because, as you notice,
they're all white, OK?

233
00:14:13,419 --> 00:14:15,365
What this statue should be,

234
00:14:15,387 --> 00:14:17,765
there should be a black face
on this statue

235
00:14:17,790 --> 00:14:20,600
and find some kind
of colored clothes,

236
00:14:20,626 --> 00:14:23,630
and this statue, the face
should be more olive

237
00:14:23,662 --> 00:14:26,643
so he can be like
an Italian gay, right,

238
00:14:26,665 --> 00:14:31,011
or a gay with a suntan
or a Latino gay,

239
00:14:31,036 --> 00:14:34,108
not to mention Chinese
and all the rest.

240
00:14:34,139 --> 00:14:36,483
I come here all the time.

241
00:14:36,508 --> 00:14:40,081
I would say once or twice
a month.

242
00:14:40,112 --> 00:14:43,685
Usually, I come into the city
for two things... money or body.

243
00:14:43,716 --> 00:14:46,253
Usually, it's body, OK,

244
00:14:46,285 --> 00:14:48,993
and usually, you would come
to the park and sit down

245
00:14:49,021 --> 00:14:50,967
and a lot of the people
I know in the park

246
00:14:50,990 --> 00:14:53,937
I have sexual
relations with, OK,

247
00:14:53,959 --> 00:14:56,371
and they enjoy it,
and they have a good time, OK?

248
00:14:56,395 --> 00:15:00,844
Also, if they need a meal
or if they need a place to sleep

249
00:15:00,866 --> 00:15:05,212
or they're just horny like I am,
this is where you come.

250
00:15:05,237 --> 00:15:07,478
I hope you enjoyed your tour.

251
00:15:07,506 --> 00:15:10,112
Have a nice day.
Enjoy yourselves.

252
00:15:34,767 --> 00:15:37,304
♪ Easin' in ♪

253
00:15:38,804 --> 00:15:40,681
♪ Slick as he can, <i>mm-hmm</i> ♪

254
00:15:58,424 --> 00:16:01,200
Well, basically,
I relate emotionally to men.

255
00:16:01,226 --> 00:16:03,103
I like men emotionally.

256
00:16:03,128 --> 00:16:05,506
I'm totally gay.

257
00:16:27,152 --> 00:16:28,130
Yep.

258
00:16:30,823 --> 00:16:34,600
When I joined
the movement, I met people.

259
00:16:34,626 --> 00:16:37,368
I liked the people,
and we had sex,

260
00:16:37,396 --> 00:16:40,377
and then, like, around '71,
I became more active.

261
00:16:40,399 --> 00:16:42,208
I went to more meetings, OK,

262
00:16:42,234 --> 00:16:44,271
because I would meet
a lot of people,

263
00:16:44,303 --> 00:16:48,979
but they were more politically
oriented than sexually oriented.

264
00:16:49,008 --> 00:16:52,387
The Gay Activists
Alliance, what we wanted to do

265
00:16:52,411 --> 00:16:55,187
was to tell people
that ultimately,

266
00:16:55,214 --> 00:16:58,559
the key to our getting
equal rights was to come out

267
00:16:58,584 --> 00:17:01,064
so that everybody knew
they knew gay people.

268
00:17:01,086 --> 00:17:04,260
Justice! Justice! Justice!

269
00:17:04,289 --> 00:17:07,395
It was a political,
nonviolent,

270
00:17:07,426 --> 00:17:09,599
militant organization.

271
00:17:09,628 --> 00:17:10,868
"N"!
"N"!

272
00:17:10,896 --> 00:17:12,239
Give me an "O"!
Ho"!

273
00:17:12,264 --> 00:17:13,607
Give me a "W"!

274
00:17:13,632 --> 00:17:15,509
I was actually
one of the very early members.

275
00:17:15,534 --> 00:17:17,207
They used to have
a demonstration

276
00:17:17,236 --> 00:17:18,647
once or twice a week...

277
00:17:18,670 --> 00:17:20,445
Gay power!
Gay power!

278
00:17:20,472 --> 00:17:22,679
and I was one
of the few people

279
00:17:22,708 --> 00:17:24,346
that had a video camera,

280
00:17:24,376 --> 00:17:26,583
and I caught all
this fabulous stuff.

281
00:17:26,612 --> 00:17:28,023
Hi. I'm Randy Wicker.

282
00:17:28,047 --> 00:17:30,118
Today we're talking
to Father Robert Clement

283
00:17:30,149 --> 00:17:32,493
of the Church
of the Beloved Disciple.

284
00:17:32,518 --> 00:17:34,191
Father Clement,
what type of church

285
00:17:34,219 --> 00:17:36,495
is the Church
of the Beloved Disciple?

286
00:17:36,522 --> 00:17:38,593
Like all churches,
it's basically, first,

287
00:17:38,624 --> 00:17:41,195
a church for everyone,
but our congregation

288
00:17:41,226 --> 00:17:42,671
is primarily gay...

289
00:17:42,694 --> 00:17:45,106
I'd say 90%, approximately...

290
00:17:45,130 --> 00:17:46,939
and we exist for the needs

291
00:17:46,965 --> 00:17:48,376
of the gay community,

292
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,811
and I am gay myself.

293
00:17:49,835 --> 00:17:51,246
I see.

294
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:52,943
At the time
in the gay activist community,

295
00:17:52,971 --> 00:17:55,451
gay marriage wasn't even
on the agenda,

296
00:17:55,474 --> 00:17:58,580
but the city clerk of New York
came out and said,

297
00:17:58,610 --> 00:18:00,954
"You know, there's this guy
in this gay church,

298
00:18:00,979 --> 00:18:04,426
"and he's performing blessings
of holy unions or something,

299
00:18:04,450 --> 00:18:06,828
"but weddings are what they are,
and if he doesn't stop it,

300
00:18:06,852 --> 00:18:09,492
we're going to take action
against him."

301
00:18:09,521 --> 00:18:11,398
Well, at this point,
on the one hand,

302
00:18:11,423 --> 00:18:13,300
gay activists didn't want
to do anything

303
00:18:13,325 --> 00:18:15,771
with the issue of gay marriage
because they would argue

304
00:18:15,794 --> 00:18:18,638
among themselves about that,
but they couldn't sit back

305
00:18:18,664 --> 00:18:22,271
and have a city official
attacking the gay community

306
00:18:22,301 --> 00:18:24,247
and threatening a gay church.

307
00:18:24,269 --> 00:18:25,839
I think
that we should never

308
00:18:25,871 --> 00:18:27,509
understand their point of view.

309
00:18:27,539 --> 00:18:30,748
Any point of view
which is opposed to gay rights

310
00:18:30,776 --> 00:18:34,223
is a wrong point of view
categorically

311
00:18:34,246 --> 00:18:36,954
by fiat and word of God.

312
00:18:36,982 --> 00:18:38,816
Ooh, ooh, ooh.

313
00:18:38,817 --> 00:18:40,296
So they decided,

314
00:18:40,319 --> 00:18:42,060
"Well, we'll go into
the Wedding Bureau,

315
00:18:42,087 --> 00:18:43,794
"and we'll take
a big wedding cake.

316
00:18:43,822 --> 00:18:45,267
"We'll take over
the Wedding Bureau.

317
00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:46,667
"We'll throw
an engagement party.

318
00:18:46,692 --> 00:18:48,399
We'll have made our statement,"

319
00:18:48,427 --> 00:18:50,395
and that's exactly
what they preceded to do.

320
00:18:50,429 --> 00:18:54,275
We have two leaflets.
One is an invitation.

321
00:18:54,299 --> 00:18:57,769
It says, "The Honorable
Herman Katz, City Clerk,

322
00:18:57,803 --> 00:18:59,840
"invites you
to an engagement reception

323
00:18:59,841 --> 00:19:02,682
"for Messrs. John <i>Basso</i>
and John C. Bond

324
00:19:02,708 --> 00:19:05,348
"and Messrs. Steve Krotz
and Vito Russo.

325
00:19:05,377 --> 00:19:07,857
All are welcome.
Dress optional."

326
00:19:09,848 --> 00:19:16,788
Spokesman for this should be
myself and Jim and John Basso.

327
00:19:16,822 --> 00:19:19,359
When I was
in the gay movement,

328
00:19:19,391 --> 00:19:21,997
I didn't use the name Wojtowicz.

329
00:19:22,027 --> 00:19:25,440
I coined the phrase
Little John Basso, OK?

330
00:19:25,464 --> 00:19:29,412
Little is because
my prick is little, right?

331
00:19:29,434 --> 00:19:31,573
So that's where I got
the nickname Little John,

332
00:19:31,603 --> 00:19:35,608
and them-being my mother
was a Basso, B-A-S-S-O...

333
00:19:35,641 --> 00:19:39,214
I used the name Basso so people
would know I was Italian.

334
00:19:39,244 --> 00:19:42,282
Are any people going
to try to get marriage licenses?

335
00:19:42,314 --> 00:19:44,487
John? Fine.

336
00:19:44,516 --> 00:19:48,965
Now, a lot of what we do
is playing to press.

337
00:19:48,987 --> 00:19:51,194
This is supposedly,

338
00:19:51,223 --> 00:19:55,501
aside from my terror,
a very up action.

339
00:19:55,527 --> 00:19:56,699
We're happy...

340
00:19:56,728 --> 00:19:58,674
Everybody
take some ups.

341
00:20:07,105 --> 00:20:09,517
Give me a "G"!
"Gil!

342
00:20:09,541 --> 00:20:11,111
Give me an "A"!
"All!

343
00:20:11,143 --> 00:20:12,349
Give me a "Y"!
"Y"!

344
00:20:12,377 --> 00:20:15,950
Weddings, to me,
is a holy institution.

345
00:20:15,981 --> 00:20:18,222
Love is a holy institution, OK?

346
00:20:18,250 --> 00:20:20,856
If I love somebody,
I want to marry that person.

347
00:20:20,886 --> 00:20:23,696
I want to make a commitment
to that person,

348
00:20:23,722 --> 00:20:26,635
and in straight society,
the way you do that

349
00:20:26,658 --> 00:20:28,069
is getting married,

350
00:20:28,093 --> 00:20:31,233
and I don't see why gays
can't do that.

351
00:20:31,263 --> 00:20:33,334
Oh, this is definitely
the Marriage Bureau.

352
00:20:33,365 --> 00:20:35,174
Your mother and dad
want to get married?

353
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,838
Are they gay?

354
00:20:36,868 --> 00:20:39,405
Oh, I'm sorry.
We can't help you.

355
00:20:39,438 --> 00:20:41,008
Gay power!

356
00:20:53,885 --> 00:20:55,125
♪ What's your name? ♪

357
00:20:55,153 --> 00:20:56,131
♪ What's your name? ♪

358
00:20:56,154 --> 00:20:57,132
♪ Who's your daddy? ♪

359
00:20:57,155 --> 00:20:58,225
♪ Who's your daddy? ♪

360
00:20:58,257 --> 00:20:59,224
♪ Is he rich? ♪

361
00:20:59,258 --> 00:21:01,704
♪ Is he rich like me? ♪

362
00:21:01,727 --> 00:21:07,973
I met Ernie
June 6, 1971.

363
00:21:11,003 --> 00:21:13,506
It was St. Anthony's Feast,

364
00:21:13,538 --> 00:21:16,417
and he was in what we call
semi-drag.

365
00:21:16,441 --> 00:21:19,547
He had pants on,
but he had makeup on, OK,

366
00:21:19,578 --> 00:21:21,990
and he was with two gay priests.

367
00:21:22,014 --> 00:21:25,120
So I went over,
and he caught my eye

368
00:21:25,150 --> 00:21:27,096
because, like I told you,
I'm one of those guys

369
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,794
when you first meet somebody,
you become infatuated with them,

370
00:21:30,822 --> 00:21:34,133
and the first time I saw Ernie,
I knew I had to have him.

371
00:21:36,395 --> 00:21:40,070
So we went
to 250 West 10th Street,

372
00:21:40,098 --> 00:21:42,544
and this is the first time
that we had sex together,

373
00:21:42,567 --> 00:21:45,548
which means I fucked Ernie, OK,

374
00:21:45,570 --> 00:21:48,744
and then after that,
our relationship started, OK?

375
00:21:48,774 --> 00:21:50,549
I would bring him roses
every week,

376
00:21:50,575 --> 00:21:53,454
and I would come here every week
and take him out.

377
00:21:55,514 --> 00:21:58,518
I met John
at St. Anthony's Feast,

378
00:21:58,550 --> 00:22:01,793
and we sort of hit it off
right away.

379
00:22:01,820 --> 00:22:05,199
He was very, very romantic,
never forgot a date,

380
00:22:05,223 --> 00:22:06,736
never forgot a birthday,
Christmas,

381
00:22:06,758 --> 00:22:07,964
anniversary, or anything.

382
00:22:07,993 --> 00:22:09,836
In the beginning,
it was a dozen roses

383
00:22:09,861 --> 00:22:11,670
almost every time
we saw each other.

384
00:22:41,526 --> 00:22:45,167
I first met Liz Eden in 1966.

385
00:22:45,197 --> 00:22:48,110
Liz sort of dressed like a guy,
but like a girl

386
00:22:48,133 --> 00:22:50,170
because in those days,
there were strict laws

387
00:22:50,202 --> 00:22:51,408
about dressing like women.

388
00:22:51,436 --> 00:22:55,509
She always had a loud,
loud, loud mouth.

389
00:22:55,540 --> 00:22:59,955
The wallpaper would curl off the
walls when she started cursing.

390
00:22:59,978 --> 00:23:03,084
Liz was the center
of every scene,

391
00:23:03,115 --> 00:23:04,856
and she had a lot of energy.

392
00:23:04,883 --> 00:23:06,191
She was a great dancer.

393
00:23:06,218 --> 00:23:07,629
He had a portable record player,

394
00:23:07,652 --> 00:23:09,654
and he would play records
over and over...

395
00:23:09,688 --> 00:23:13,795
Judy Garland or Carmen Miranda
and all of that.

396
00:23:13,825 --> 00:23:17,773
He loved that,
and then I remember

397
00:23:17,796 --> 00:23:20,333
at the gay firehouse
on Wooster Street,

398
00:23:20,365 --> 00:23:23,244
Liz saying this Vietnam veteran
was in love with him,

399
00:23:23,268 --> 00:23:25,748
and I saw this guy,
and he was short.

400
00:23:25,771 --> 00:23:28,274
I said, "He's tiny next to you.

401
00:23:28,306 --> 00:23:29,842
"What are you going to do
with him? He's tiny."

402
00:23:29,875 --> 00:23:31,821
"Oh, but he loves me,"
and blah, blah, blah.

403
00:23:31,843 --> 00:23:34,756
He was sort of a troll,
and he loved her.

404
00:23:34,780 --> 00:23:37,420
There's a troll that loved her.

405
00:23:37,449 --> 00:23:41,124
OK. After I first met
Ernie, I started to court him.

406
00:23:41,153 --> 00:23:43,258
I knew that he sold his body

407
00:23:43,288 --> 00:23:47,031
because he told me about that
to support himself.

408
00:23:47,058 --> 00:23:48,935
We had a relationship.

409
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,871
We got closer
and closer together.

410
00:23:50,896 --> 00:23:53,137
I fell in love with him
more and more,

411
00:23:53,165 --> 00:23:55,133
and that's why I wanted
to get married,

412
00:23:55,167 --> 00:23:56,976
and he was against us
getting married,

413
00:23:57,002 --> 00:23:59,949
but, like I said, I convinced
him into getting married.

414
00:24:26,298 --> 00:24:28,744
I got a phone call
from my priest,

415
00:24:28,767 --> 00:24:30,474
the guy who married me.

416
00:24:30,502 --> 00:24:32,106
He says to me,
"Carmen, there's going to be

417
00:24:32,137 --> 00:24:33,741
"a wedding coming in December.

418
00:24:33,772 --> 00:24:35,547
You're going to get
an invitation for this wedding."

419
00:24:35,574 --> 00:24:37,349
I go, "Who's getting married?"

420
00:24:37,375 --> 00:24:39,150
He says, "Are you ready
for this? You ready?"

421
00:24:39,177 --> 00:24:40,690
and he told me,
"John is going to get married

422
00:24:40,712 --> 00:24:42,623
to someone in the Village."

423
00:24:42,647 --> 00:24:44,524
I said, "What do you mean,
getting married to someone?

424
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:46,586
What kind of marriage?"

425
00:24:46,618 --> 00:24:49,599
and he told me,
"He's marrying a guy,"

426
00:24:49,621 --> 00:24:50,599
who was Ernie.

427
00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:54,366
OK. You ready?

428
00:24:54,392 --> 00:24:57,464
Testing 1,2,3,4,5, right?
Action?

429
00:24:57,496 --> 00:24:59,567
OK. Now, in the old days,

430
00:24:59,598 --> 00:25:05,037
this bar was called
What's In A Name Café, OK?

431
00:25:05,070 --> 00:25:08,779
We had the wedding reception
here and the wedding.

432
00:25:08,807 --> 00:25:11,378
A gay priest came in, right?

433
00:25:11,409 --> 00:25:13,946
He did the ceremony.
We were married.

434
00:25:13,979 --> 00:25:17,119
GAA filmed it
for the archives, OK?

435
00:25:17,148 --> 00:25:20,755
The cops from the 6th precinct
over here came out and say,

436
00:25:20,785 --> 00:25:24,267
"What the fuck is going on
out there?"

437
00:25:24,289 --> 00:25:26,200
And the cops came out,
congratulated us,

438
00:25:26,224 --> 00:25:27,931
thinking we were all girls.

439
00:25:27,959 --> 00:25:30,462
The whole wedding party
was all guys,

440
00:25:30,495 --> 00:25:34,170
and when we came out for
the reception, they found out.

441
00:25:34,199 --> 00:25:37,339
They said, "Hey, we didn't know
this was all happening."

442
00:25:37,369 --> 00:25:39,975
I said, "Neither
did the priest."

443
00:25:40,005 --> 00:25:42,451
I didn't
know John, but I heard

444
00:25:42,474 --> 00:25:43,817
there was going to be
this wedding, and I said,

445
00:25:43,842 --> 00:25:46,482
"I have to videotape this,"
because, first of all,

446
00:25:46,511 --> 00:25:49,151
I don't think I'd ever heard
of a gay wedding at that point,

447
00:25:49,180 --> 00:25:51,421
and not only was it
a gay wedding,

448
00:25:51,449 --> 00:25:53,292
but the mother was going
to be there,

449
00:25:53,318 --> 00:25:55,389
which was also sort of like,

450
00:25:55,420 --> 00:25:57,627
"Oh, wow, what would
the mother be like?"

451
00:25:57,656 --> 00:26:00,000
You are
the groom's mother?

452
00:26:00,025 --> 00:26:01,060
Yes.

453
00:26:01,092 --> 00:26:02,537
And how do you feel today?

454
00:26:08,066 --> 00:26:10,376
Is John your only son, or...

455
00:26:11,703 --> 00:26:12,943
How about the rest
of your family?

456
00:26:12,971 --> 00:26:14,746
Will they be attending?

457
00:26:16,174 --> 00:26:17,949
Any reason for that, or...

458
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,791
OK. Well, I hope
everything goes well,

459
00:26:23,815 --> 00:26:25,852
and thank you very much.

460
00:26:25,884 --> 00:26:27,852
John was the apple of her eye.

461
00:26:27,886 --> 00:26:30,087
You could just see this woman
just loved her son so much

462
00:26:30,088 --> 00:26:32,568
that almost anything he did

463
00:26:32,591 --> 00:26:35,197
would not cause her
to reject him.

464
00:26:41,499 --> 00:26:43,706
Ernie bought
the most expensive dress

465
00:26:43,735 --> 00:26:45,339
he could find on Grand Street.

466
00:26:45,370 --> 00:26:49,079
Cost like almost $1,000,
so he could look regal

467
00:26:49,107 --> 00:26:52,088
and drive what we call
all the butch numbers crazy.

468
00:26:52,110 --> 00:26:54,488
So I said, "Well,
he'll get over that bullshit."

469
00:26:54,512 --> 00:26:57,755
So I put on my army uniform
with all my medals

470
00:26:57,782 --> 00:27:00,262
to drive all the girls crazy.

471
00:27:00,285 --> 00:27:02,561
So it's always that rivalry,

472
00:27:02,587 --> 00:27:04,294
and that's how it is
in the gay life.

473
00:27:04,322 --> 00:27:06,996
Everyone tries to one-up
the other one,

474
00:27:07,025 --> 00:27:09,164
and each one wants to be
the star,

475
00:27:09,194 --> 00:27:12,198
but there's only one star,
and that's me.

476
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:14,642
Mother did get
a little looped

477
00:27:14,666 --> 00:27:17,510
by the end of the evening here.

478
00:27:17,535 --> 00:27:20,038
The other thing I remember
about the wedding is,

479
00:27:20,071 --> 00:27:23,575
John was kissing everybody,
everybody.

480
00:27:23,608 --> 00:27:25,884
I mean, when I say kiss,
I don't mean peeks.

481
00:27:25,910 --> 00:27:27,218
I don't mean like
you kiss the bride

482
00:27:27,245 --> 00:27:28,485
on the way out of the church.

483
00:27:28,513 --> 00:27:31,221
I mean, he was kissing
everybody.

484
00:27:32,550 --> 00:27:35,895
OK. After the
wedding ceremony on December 4,

485
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,403
we lasted to April,
and then we broke up, OK?

486
00:27:40,425 --> 00:27:43,531
The reason we broke up is
because we kept having arguments

487
00:27:43,561 --> 00:27:46,701
and fights because he wanted
the sex change operation,

488
00:27:46,731 --> 00:27:48,768
and what a lot of people
don't understand

489
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,474
is that I didn't want Ernie
to have the sex operation.

490
00:27:51,503 --> 00:27:53,676
Now, I, at the time,
was interested

491
00:27:53,705 --> 00:27:56,618
in a guy with big tits
and a little dick,

492
00:27:56,641 --> 00:27:59,144
but Ernie wanted to be a woman,
and in the beginning,

493
00:27:59,177 --> 00:28:02,681
I didn't realize how badly
he wanted to be this woman.

494
00:28:04,315 --> 00:28:06,625
There were a lot
of people back then

495
00:28:06,651 --> 00:28:10,599
who had had sex changes,
and Liz was always talking

496
00:28:10,622 --> 00:28:14,069
about having a change
and how enjoyable it would be

497
00:28:14,092 --> 00:28:17,130
and how wonderful it would be
to be a woman.

498
00:28:17,162 --> 00:28:20,336
They both tried very hard
to have a life,

499
00:28:20,365 --> 00:28:22,242
but I don't think
she was happy that much.

500
00:28:22,267 --> 00:28:23,803
I really don't.

501
00:28:23,835 --> 00:28:27,282
She showed me her wrists once,
come to think of it,

502
00:28:27,305 --> 00:28:29,444
and I could see <i>scars</i>
on her wrists,

503
00:28:29,474 --> 00:28:32,045
and I said,
"Why did you do that?"

504
00:28:32,077 --> 00:28:35,991
and she kind of downplayed it,
made it into a joke.

505
00:28:38,116 --> 00:28:42,428
OK. Now, as I explained
to you earlier,

506
00:28:42,454 --> 00:28:46,925
after we got married around
the corner, what we did is,

507
00:28:46,958 --> 00:28:48,995
we moved out of the apartment
where I got down

508
00:28:49,027 --> 00:28:53,169
with the two gay priests and
my first relations with Ernie,

509
00:28:53,198 --> 00:28:57,010
OK, and then we moved
into this fancy place, OK?

510
00:28:57,035 --> 00:29:00,005
This is where our apartment was,

511
00:29:00,038 --> 00:29:04,384
and about a month or two after
we got married in December,

512
00:29:04,409 --> 00:29:08,619
this is where Ernie first tried
to commit suicide, OK,

513
00:29:08,646 --> 00:29:11,456
because he still wanted
the sex change,

514
00:29:11,483 --> 00:29:13,429
which we agreed he wasn't
going to have

515
00:29:13,451 --> 00:29:15,590
because I was against it, OK,

516
00:29:15,620 --> 00:29:17,691
and he said,
"I can't take it anymore.

517
00:29:17,722 --> 00:29:20,066
I want to have a sex change,
or I want to die."

518
00:29:20,091 --> 00:29:22,503
So he took a butcher knife out
this long

519
00:29:22,527 --> 00:29:24,336
and tried to stick it in him.

520
00:29:24,362 --> 00:29:26,672
I grabbed the butcher knife
from him,

521
00:29:26,698 --> 00:29:31,113
and as we struggled,
I got out in my hand, OK?

522
00:29:31,136 --> 00:29:34,106
So we wind up getting into a
fight because he wouldn't stop.

523
00:29:34,139 --> 00:29:36,551
Somebody called the cops, right?

524
00:29:36,574 --> 00:29:39,145
They came and arrested us,
right, and they brought us

525
00:29:39,177 --> 00:29:41,248
to St. Vincent's,
to the nuthouse.

526
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:44,488
When we got there,
Ernie turned the story around

527
00:29:44,516 --> 00:29:47,156
and said that I had tried
to kill him with the knife

528
00:29:47,185 --> 00:29:49,563
because he didn't want to go
in the nuthouse.

529
00:29:49,587 --> 00:29:51,828
So then they tried to put me
in the nuthouse,

530
00:29:51,856 --> 00:29:55,235
but after the cops
stopped and left,

531
00:29:55,260 --> 00:29:59,174
I knocked down two
of the security guards

532
00:29:59,197 --> 00:30:02,667
and one restraining guy and
ran the fuck out of the place

533
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:05,840
because I ain't going
in no nuthouse, right,

534
00:30:05,870 --> 00:30:08,077
but this was the apartment
we lived in.

535
00:30:08,106 --> 00:30:11,383
Ernie kept becoming violent.

536
00:30:11,409 --> 00:30:13,184
He would take an overdose.

537
00:30:13,211 --> 00:30:15,555
He would put his hand
through a plate glass window.

538
00:30:15,580 --> 00:30:19,357
He would cut his wrists, and he
kept getting worse and worse,

539
00:30:19,384 --> 00:30:23,059
and then his birthday came
on August 19, 1972.

540
00:31:02,293 --> 00:31:06,469
The doctor told me, "You know
he's never getting out of here,

541
00:31:06,497 --> 00:31:09,603
"right, and we're going to give
him electronic shock therapy,

542
00:31:09,634 --> 00:31:11,045
"and he's sick.

543
00:31:11,069 --> 00:31:12,844
He wants to chop off his dick."

544
00:31:12,871 --> 00:31:14,748
Then I got in to see him,

545
00:31:14,772 --> 00:31:17,378
and that's when I made
the decision right then

546
00:31:17,408 --> 00:31:19,217
because they're never
letting him out.

547
00:31:19,244 --> 00:31:21,315
So I'm going to take him out
by force.

548
00:31:22,881 --> 00:31:26,090
OK. This was Ernie and I's
neighborhood bar.

549
00:31:26,117 --> 00:31:28,324
It was called Old Jimmy's,
and it was owned

550
00:31:28,353 --> 00:31:33,063
by a guy named Buddha,
who was a fat guy, OK?

551
00:31:33,091 --> 00:31:36,504
In this bar, Ernie and I used
to socialize and meet everybody.

552
00:31:36,527 --> 00:31:39,098
This is where
I met Bobby Westenberg,

553
00:31:39,130 --> 00:31:41,508
and he's the second guy
that went with us

554
00:31:41,532 --> 00:31:42,909
for the bank robbery.

555
00:31:42,934 --> 00:31:46,143
He had a bad lung,
and I offered him $50,000

556
00:31:46,170 --> 00:31:49,208
to help get Ernie
out of the nuthouse, OK?

557
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,584
That's why we robbed the bank,
to get the money.

558
00:31:51,609 --> 00:31:54,488
Also, in here is where I met
the third partner

559
00:31:54,512 --> 00:31:55,991
that robbed the bank with me.

560
00:31:56,014 --> 00:32:00,326
His name was Sal Naturale.
His real name was Masterson.

561
00:32:00,351 --> 00:32:03,355
He was an escaped fugitive
from New Jersey,

562
00:32:03,388 --> 00:32:06,130
and he never wanted
to go back to jail then, OK?

563
00:32:06,157 --> 00:32:09,138
He had just turned 18,
the way I understand it,

564
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,075
and Bobby Westenberg was
about 20, and that's the story.

565
00:32:14,098 --> 00:32:15,941
Cut.

566
00:32:18,202 --> 00:32:21,115
So we went and got the guns,
the rifles,

567
00:32:21,139 --> 00:32:22,914
everything we needed.

568
00:32:22,941 --> 00:32:27,378
Then we went to
the Golden Nugget Motel

569
00:32:27,412 --> 00:32:29,756
the night before the robbery.

570
00:32:32,517 --> 00:32:35,794
OK. While we were in there,
I grabbed a hold

571
00:32:35,820 --> 00:32:38,528
of Bobby Westenberg,
and I wanted to fuck him

572
00:32:38,556 --> 00:32:41,264
because he used to dress up
as a girl with a dress, right,

573
00:32:41,292 --> 00:32:44,171
and he goes,
"What are you talking about?"

574
00:32:44,195 --> 00:32:45,731
I said, "I want to fuck you."

575
00:32:45,763 --> 00:32:47,242
"Well, I don't want you
fucking me."

576
00:32:47,265 --> 00:32:50,007
I said, "I'm giving you
$50,000, right?

577
00:32:50,034 --> 00:32:53,106
"You're going to tell me I'm
not getting a fuck out of it?

578
00:32:53,137 --> 00:32:54,844
"You're out
of your fucking mind.

579
00:32:54,872 --> 00:32:57,113
Because I'm getting
a fuck out of this."

580
00:32:57,141 --> 00:32:59,678
So then I fucked him,
and then Sal came over,

581
00:32:59,711 --> 00:33:02,282
and he wanted to fuck Bobby.

582
00:33:02,313 --> 00:33:04,224
Bobby tells him no.

583
00:33:04,248 --> 00:33:05,818
So they start getting
into a fight.

584
00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:07,090
So I come out of the shower.

585
00:33:07,118 --> 00:33:09,257
I says, "Hey, what are you
two bitches arguing about?"

586
00:33:09,287 --> 00:33:10,459
"Well, he won't let me..."

587
00:33:10,488 --> 00:33:13,230
"Hey, what is it
with you Bobby?"

588
00:33:13,257 --> 00:33:17,330
I said, "We could all die
tomorrow, so let's die happy,"

589
00:33:17,362 --> 00:33:19,638
but Sal was pissed off at him

590
00:33:19,664 --> 00:33:22,577
because Sal didn't
get the booty.

591
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,638
Next morning, we get up.

592
00:33:25,670 --> 00:33:28,150
We leave the Golden Nugget,

593
00:33:28,172 --> 00:33:31,176
and then we started going
to different banks.

594
00:33:31,209 --> 00:33:34,554
We went down to one bank
on Delancey and Essex Street.

595
00:33:36,814 --> 00:33:39,385
So we park the car.

596
00:33:39,417 --> 00:33:40,937
Bobby and Sal
get out of the car to go,

597
00:33:40,952 --> 00:33:42,920
and all of a sudden,
I hear this boom.

598
00:33:42,954 --> 00:33:45,127
I go, "What's this boom?"

599
00:33:45,156 --> 00:33:47,932
I look out the side
of the car window,

600
00:33:47,959 --> 00:33:51,873
and the assholes
dropped the shotgun.

601
00:33:51,896 --> 00:33:53,842
It fell out of the back
of the box.

602
00:33:53,865 --> 00:33:57,608
They were carrying it in a
Wrigley's Spearmint gum package.

603
00:33:57,635 --> 00:34:01,208
It's about this big, and it
says, "Wrigley's Spearmint gum."

604
00:34:01,239 --> 00:34:04,743
It's pop art, like Andy Warhol,
all right,

605
00:34:04,776 --> 00:34:07,086
because, you know, if you walk
into a bank with a package,

606
00:34:07,111 --> 00:34:09,751
they're going to be suspicious,
but if you walk into the bank

607
00:34:09,781 --> 00:34:12,193
with a Wrigley's Spearmint
gum package,

608
00:34:12,216 --> 00:34:14,787
they just think it's pop art
and you're bringing it home

609
00:34:14,819 --> 00:34:17,561
to put on your wall
or something, right?

610
00:34:17,588 --> 00:34:20,125
At least it made sense to me,
right?

611
00:34:20,158 --> 00:34:23,765
So I get out.
I pick up the shotgun.

612
00:34:23,795 --> 00:34:24,933
I said, "You two assholes
get in the car,"

613
00:34:24,962 --> 00:34:27,169
and we drive away,
and all these people

614
00:34:27,198 --> 00:34:30,145
are standing there
looking at us,

615
00:34:30,168 --> 00:34:31,704
but, you know, who's
going to say anything?

616
00:34:31,736 --> 00:34:34,239
"Oh, you dropped your shotgun,"
right,

617
00:34:34,272 --> 00:34:36,513
and we were gone in the wind,

618
00:34:36,541 --> 00:34:38,851
and I said, "You dumb fucks,
what's the matter with you?"

619
00:34:38,876 --> 00:34:41,220
"Well, I told you the box
was too heavy."

620
00:34:41,245 --> 00:34:46,456
I said, "Oh, you fucking wimp,
Bobby, be butch, will you?"

621
00:34:46,517 --> 00:34:49,464
and then Sal gave him
the, "Oh, he can't be butch.

622
00:34:49,487 --> 00:34:51,865
He's a girl that don't
get fucked."

623
00:34:51,889 --> 00:34:54,267
I said, "Well, you can fuck him
after the robbery.

624
00:34:54,292 --> 00:34:55,259
Don't worry about it."

625
00:34:57,061 --> 00:34:59,905
We went to this first bank...
it was on Delancey and Essex...

626
00:34:59,931 --> 00:35:01,842
The Manufacturers Hanover Trust.

627
00:35:01,866 --> 00:35:03,470
Then we out down here
on Howard Beach.

628
00:35:03,501 --> 00:35:04,741
It looked like an easy hit.

629
00:35:04,769 --> 00:35:05,736
There's a lot of money
in that bank,

630
00:35:05,770 --> 00:35:07,374
being that it's
the only one around.

631
00:35:07,405 --> 00:35:09,282
We walked in there, and
my mother's friend,

632
00:35:09,307 --> 00:35:11,719
her best friend, is,
"How you doing, Bobby?"

633
00:35:11,742 --> 00:35:14,689
while Sal is ready to take
his gun out on the guard.

634
00:35:14,712 --> 00:35:17,022
So we foiled that one.

635
00:35:17,048 --> 00:35:19,824
Then we get into this other
Chase Manhattan Bank

636
00:35:19,825 --> 00:35:21,854
down in Manhattan.

637
00:35:21,886 --> 00:35:24,264
Now we're driving all over,
a series of banks,

638
00:35:24,288 --> 00:35:25,733
and we get in front
of this one bank,

639
00:35:25,756 --> 00:35:27,463
and we're just doing
a practice run.

640
00:35:27,492 --> 00:35:30,098
Goes in for a silver dollar,
comes back out.

641
00:35:30,128 --> 00:35:32,335
"OK. "Lets try to get away."

642
00:35:32,363 --> 00:35:34,502
Try to get away,
we smack into a car,

643
00:35:34,532 --> 00:35:37,240
and they're threatening to call
the police and have the police.

644
00:35:37,268 --> 00:35:40,647
They'll want to search the car,
see the guns, the note, which...

645
00:35:40,671 --> 00:35:42,981
The note was weird.

646
00:35:43,007 --> 00:35:44,486
At the end of the note, it says,

647
00:35:44,509 --> 00:35:48,218
"This is an offer you can't
refuse," from "The Godfather."

648
00:35:48,246 --> 00:35:50,487
Before we went to the bank,

649
00:35:50,515 --> 00:35:53,655
we decided to go to 42nd Street
to watch "The Godfather"

650
00:35:53,684 --> 00:35:57,029
for inspiration, and it was
the first time it was playing.

651
00:35:57,054 --> 00:36:00,035
So I said, "Come on.
Let's go get turned on."

652
00:36:00,057 --> 00:36:03,971
It's just like a coach.
You get your team ready.

653
00:36:03,995 --> 00:36:05,838
You get them all fired up,
and they go gung ho, right?

654
00:36:05,863 --> 00:36:09,310
So we go and watch
"The Godfather" for inspiration,

655
00:36:09,333 --> 00:36:12,405
right, and then I write out
the note.

656
00:36:12,436 --> 00:36:14,279
I go to the bank manager,

657
00:36:14,305 --> 00:36:17,616
"This is an offer you can't
refuse," signed, the boys.

658
00:36:17,642 --> 00:36:19,417
Ha ha ha!

659
00:36:19,443 --> 00:36:21,286
After a while,

660
00:36:21,312 --> 00:36:23,258
we foiled
all these bank robberies.

661
00:36:23,281 --> 00:36:25,420
So John says, "I know a bank."

662
00:36:25,449 --> 00:36:28,828
I says, "OK.
Let's not mess this one up."

663
00:36:34,492 --> 00:36:37,996
My shift began
at 5:00 in the evening.

664
00:36:38,029 --> 00:36:41,875
I walked into the newsroom,
and this was already under way.

665
00:36:41,899 --> 00:36:44,778
They had walked into the bank
at 2:50 that afternoon

666
00:36:44,802 --> 00:36:47,715
and taken over,
and the editor said,

667
00:36:47,738 --> 00:36:50,378
"Start working the story
by phone, see what you can get."

668
00:36:50,408 --> 00:36:52,718
So I said, "I'll call the bank."

669
00:36:52,743 --> 00:36:55,952
So I called the bank,
and, lo and behold,

670
00:36:55,980 --> 00:36:57,891
this guy picks up the phone

671
00:36:57,915 --> 00:36:59,724
and says he's one
of the bandits.

672
00:36:59,750 --> 00:37:01,559
So I started interviewing him.

673
00:37:01,586 --> 00:37:02,553
He's giving me
these great quotes.

674
00:37:02,587 --> 00:37:06,023
I said, "Are you afraid
of dying?

675
00:37:06,057 --> 00:37:09,061
Could you really kill
these people?"

676
00:37:09,093 --> 00:37:12,370
and I'm sitting there
listening to this, taking notes,

677
00:37:12,396 --> 00:37:18,938
typing like crazy and my mind
is going, "Wow! What a story."

678
00:37:18,970 --> 00:37:21,109
They said, "All right.
Why don't you go down there?"

679
00:37:21,138 --> 00:37:23,744
So I went down to the bank.
It was a circus.

680
00:37:28,246 --> 00:37:31,523
I mean, obviously you had
all the cops and the FBI,

681
00:37:31,549 --> 00:37:34,086
emergency vehicles, ambulances,

682
00:37:34,118 --> 00:37:37,759
even a fire truck in case
they set the bank on fire.

683
00:37:37,788 --> 00:37:40,701
You had snipers on rooftops,
and then you had this crowd.

684
00:37:40,725 --> 00:37:42,671
It was just a big mob.
There was about 2,000 people.

685
00:37:42,693 --> 00:37:44,604
They would cheer.

686
00:37:44,629 --> 00:37:46,973
I mean, that was
a Brooklyn crowd that night.

687
00:37:46,998 --> 00:37:48,773
"YO!" Ha!

688
00:37:51,402 --> 00:37:53,905
I didn't see any hot dog wagons
or t-shirt guys,

689
00:37:53,938 --> 00:37:58,182
but it had that same kind
of atmosphere, TV cameras.

690
00:37:58,209 --> 00:37:59,916
It was a full-blown show.

691
00:38:01,746 --> 00:38:04,659
We heard sirens, so
we knew something was happening,

692
00:38:04,682 --> 00:38:06,127
and we all went.

693
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:09,620
Everybody was there...
children, parents, everybody.

694
00:38:11,122 --> 00:38:12,726
You know, one person
told the other,

695
00:38:12,757 --> 00:38:14,361
and before you knew it,
it was a mob scene,

696
00:38:14,392 --> 00:38:16,463
and the more they heard
what was going on on the news,

697
00:38:16,494 --> 00:38:18,838
the more people came
from even further away.

698
00:38:18,863 --> 00:38:23,073
You know people come.
They're curious. We all are.

699
00:38:24,335 --> 00:38:26,406
Oh, there was a mob.

700
00:38:26,437 --> 00:38:27,745
There was a mob here.

701
00:38:27,772 --> 00:38:29,479
You couldn't get
down the street here.

702
00:38:29,507 --> 00:38:31,111
You couldn't get down.

703
00:38:31,142 --> 00:38:33,144
The street was
completely blocked off.

704
00:38:33,177 --> 00:38:35,521
On both sides, you couldn't go.

705
00:38:35,546 --> 00:38:37,253
Of course, my
neighbor Gino's...

706
00:38:37,281 --> 00:38:39,192
They had all those news people.

707
00:38:39,216 --> 00:38:40,456
It was loaded with news people.

708
00:38:40,484 --> 00:38:42,486
But I had to go to the city,

709
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:44,193
Sloan Kettering, with
my mother to see her uncle.

710
00:38:44,221 --> 00:38:45,734
Everybody came from all over

711
00:38:45,756 --> 00:38:47,929
to try to get over
here, everybody.

712
00:38:47,958 --> 00:38:49,198
When I came home, I said,

713
00:38:49,226 --> 00:38:50,637
"So you don't know
what's going on?

714
00:38:50,661 --> 00:38:51,867
They even saw on television.

715
00:38:51,896 --> 00:38:54,308
But the people that were
outside, forget about it.

716
00:38:54,332 --> 00:38:55,743
They were having a party.

717
00:38:55,766 --> 00:38:57,905
It was funny, you know?

718
00:38:57,935 --> 00:39:00,142
Not for the people in the bank.

719
00:39:05,409 --> 00:39:07,980
What happened is,
when we went inside the bank,

720
00:39:08,012 --> 00:39:11,391
Bobby walks over to me and says,
"I can't do it."

721
00:39:13,851 --> 00:39:16,058
I go, "What?"
He says, "I can't."

722
00:39:16,087 --> 00:39:17,828
I said, "What the fuck
do you mean, you can't do it?

723
00:39:17,855 --> 00:39:19,698
We're in here."

724
00:39:19,724 --> 00:39:21,829
"No, no. I got to go."

725
00:39:21,859 --> 00:39:24,999
So Bobby says, "I'm leaving."

726
00:39:25,029 --> 00:39:27,703
So then I got to make
a decision.

727
00:39:27,732 --> 00:39:30,736
Am I going to walk out the door,

728
00:39:30,768 --> 00:39:33,078
or do I still rob the bank?

729
00:39:34,105 --> 00:39:36,051
I go, "Fuck it."

730
00:39:36,073 --> 00:39:37,450
So being I'm a Roman Catholic,

731
00:39:37,475 --> 00:39:39,079
I go, "In the name
of the Father,

732
00:39:39,110 --> 00:39:41,351
the Son, and the Holy Ghost."

733
00:39:41,379 --> 00:39:43,723
I pull the shotgun
out of the package.

734
00:39:43,748 --> 00:39:45,489
I says, "OK. Nobody move.

735
00:39:45,516 --> 00:39:47,462
Back up.
Nobody touch any alarms."

736
00:39:47,485 --> 00:39:49,021
I said, "We're going
to take the money,

737
00:39:49,053 --> 00:39:50,532
"We're gone.
We don't want no problems.

738
00:39:50,554 --> 00:39:52,898
Everybody does what I tell them,

739
00:39:52,923 --> 00:39:54,368
"and everything will be
all right,

740
00:39:54,392 --> 00:39:56,463
and we'll be out of here
in 5 minutes."

741
00:39:56,494 --> 00:39:59,168
So we go, and we start
taking the money.

742
00:39:59,196 --> 00:40:01,699
I think after 10 minutes,
you knew they were amateurs.

743
00:40:01,732 --> 00:40:03,473
They were not
professional bank robbers.

744
00:40:03,501 --> 00:40:05,879
They kind of let us know this.

745
00:40:05,903 --> 00:40:08,645
Actually, this is when the ball
started rolling.

746
00:40:10,107 --> 00:40:12,678
I'm going,
"What the fuck is going on?"

747
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:14,986
and I'm looking in the window.

748
00:40:15,012 --> 00:40:17,117
Then I see them.

749
00:40:17,148 --> 00:40:18,525
In the windows,

750
00:40:18,549 --> 00:40:21,291
on the fire escape,
there are cops.

751
00:40:21,318 --> 00:40:23,229
On the roof, the cops
are standing up,

752
00:40:23,254 --> 00:40:26,360
coming around the corner.

753
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:28,597
I don't know what went wrong,
but that's why

754
00:40:28,626 --> 00:40:30,628
whenever you see
bank robbery movies,

755
00:40:30,661 --> 00:40:32,607
they go, "We only got a minute."

756
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:34,906
Now you know why.

757
00:40:38,269 --> 00:40:41,216
So we're sitting there
in the bank.

758
00:40:41,238 --> 00:40:43,741
Then Sal comes over,

759
00:40:43,774 --> 00:40:46,914
and we're looking at each other,

760
00:40:46,944 --> 00:40:51,256
and he says "I don't know
what we're going to do."

761
00:40:51,282 --> 00:40:53,057
I says, "I know
what I'm going to do.

762
00:40:53,083 --> 00:40:55,324
"I'm going to get Ernie.

763
00:40:55,352 --> 00:40:57,559
"I'm going to tell the cops
to go to the nuthouse

764
00:40:57,588 --> 00:40:59,329
"and bring Ernie down here.

765
00:40:59,356 --> 00:41:01,336
"We're going to get
on the plane.

766
00:41:01,358 --> 00:41:03,235
"We're going
to fly him to Denmark

767
00:41:03,260 --> 00:41:06,173
and get him the sex change
operation."

768
00:41:06,197 --> 00:41:08,768
"You're crazy."

769
00:41:08,799 --> 00:41:11,006
"Watch."

770
00:41:11,035 --> 00:41:13,208
A bank holdup
is under way at this time

771
00:41:13,237 --> 00:41:15,046
in the Chase Manhattan Bank
branch

772
00:41:15,072 --> 00:41:17,712
at Avenue P
and East 3rd Street in Brooklyn.

773
00:41:17,741 --> 00:41:19,311
What's going on now?

774
00:41:19,343 --> 00:41:21,050
We're waiting
to negotiate the release

775
00:41:21,078 --> 00:41:23,490
of the people so we
can get out of here.

776
00:41:23,514 --> 00:41:25,425
What are your terms
for release?

777
00:41:25,449 --> 00:41:27,554
Well, I want them
to deliver my wife here

778
00:41:27,585 --> 00:41:29,826
from Kings County Hospital.

779
00:41:29,854 --> 00:41:32,095
His name is Ernest Aron.

780
00:41:32,122 --> 00:41:34,762
It's a guy. I'm gay-

781
00:41:38,996 --> 00:41:40,703
I put the news on.

782
00:41:40,731 --> 00:41:41,937
I was watching it, and I hear,

783
00:41:41,966 --> 00:41:43,206
"There's another
bulletin out now.

784
00:41:43,234 --> 00:41:46,204
He wants to see his wife,
and this is his wife,"

785
00:41:46,237 --> 00:41:48,877
and they put the picture
on the television

786
00:41:48,906 --> 00:41:53,286
of Ernie in the bride outfit,
which I never saw before,

787
00:41:53,310 --> 00:41:56,951
and my relatives never knew
Johnny was gay.

788
00:41:56,981 --> 00:41:58,119
Don't forget now,

789
00:41:58,148 --> 00:41:59,786
this was broadcast
like the World Trade Center.

790
00:41:59,817 --> 00:42:02,058
This is on
all day and all night.

791
00:42:02,086 --> 00:42:05,033
They took Nixon off the TV
to put Johnny on.

792
00:42:05,055 --> 00:42:07,467
So tonight,
my fellow Americans, I say...

793
00:42:07,491 --> 00:42:11,803
So they all saw it,
and then I get the phone calls.

794
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:15,470
"We told you not to marry him.
You see? You see what you did?"

795
00:42:15,499 --> 00:42:17,240
I was getting the blame
for the robbery.

796
00:42:17,268 --> 00:42:19,908
And just last morning...

797
00:42:33,217 --> 00:42:34,525
Hoo hoo!

798
00:42:39,023 --> 00:42:42,971
He told everyone in the
world why he robbed the bank.

799
00:42:42,993 --> 00:42:45,064
He was being honest, you know,

800
00:42:45,095 --> 00:42:48,872
and I think it was a big
explosion in people's eyes.

801
00:42:48,899 --> 00:42:51,106
"What, a guy robbing a bank
for his...

802
00:42:51,135 --> 00:42:52,580
"Is that a guy he's
robbing the...

803
00:42:52,603 --> 00:42:53,946
I don't understand."

804
00:42:53,971 --> 00:42:56,076
I mean, it was a big shocker.

805
00:42:56,106 --> 00:42:59,383
It was like gay liberation
right down your throat.

806
00:42:59,410 --> 00:43:01,048
We blinked.

807
00:43:01,078 --> 00:43:06,323
We said, "What?"
and, "Sex change? My goodness."

808
00:43:06,350 --> 00:43:09,354
This had never really happened
before, to our knowledge,

809
00:43:09,386 --> 00:43:10,899
anything like this.

810
00:43:15,993 --> 00:43:17,802
This asshole
is standing out there

811
00:43:17,828 --> 00:43:19,501
with a bullhorn.

812
00:43:19,530 --> 00:43:21,373
He said, "All right,
you faggots.

813
00:43:21,398 --> 00:43:23,036
We're coming in there,
and we're going to get you."

814
00:43:23,067 --> 00:43:25,035
I said, "What did he say?"

815
00:43:25,069 --> 00:43:27,174
I said, "You call me a faggot
one more time,

816
00:43:27,204 --> 00:43:29,241
"I'll kick your fucking ass,
and if you think

817
00:43:29,273 --> 00:43:31,947
"you're so fucking bad,
why don't you put down that gun

818
00:43:31,976 --> 00:43:34,252
"and come over here
and call me a faggot?

819
00:43:34,278 --> 00:43:35,985
"Because I'll fuck you up.

820
00:43:36,013 --> 00:43:37,458
"Come on. Put down the gun
and come on over.

821
00:43:37,481 --> 00:43:38,755
"You see me with a gun?

822
00:43:38,782 --> 00:43:40,784
I don't got no weapons.
Come on over. Let's go."

823
00:43:40,818 --> 00:43:43,594
Then you hear the cops
cracking up and laughing

824
00:43:43,621 --> 00:43:45,623
because they know he ain't
going to call me a faggot

825
00:43:45,656 --> 00:43:48,967
because they done seen
the artillery I got,

826
00:43:48,993 --> 00:43:52,873
and then I knew I'm the man.

827
00:43:54,798 --> 00:43:57,142
I think that
there was a whole mantra

828
00:43:57,167 --> 00:43:59,704
that he played very nicely into.

829
00:43:59,737 --> 00:44:01,546
This was a guy who was wacko.

830
00:44:01,572 --> 00:44:02,812
He's robbing a bank,

831
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,616
supposedly to finance
a sex change operation.

832
00:44:05,643 --> 00:44:07,122
Well, that's not robbing a bank

833
00:44:07,144 --> 00:44:08,817
to take a vacation
in the Bahamas.

834
00:44:08,846 --> 00:44:10,154
You know what I mean?

835
00:44:10,180 --> 00:44:12,126
That's not a selfish, but
supposedly altruistic motive.

836
00:44:12,149 --> 00:44:13,753
Then you have
all these theatrics.

837
00:44:13,817 --> 00:44:16,991
They had pizzas delivered.
He threw money out the door.

838
00:44:17,021 --> 00:44:19,695
Anybody would love.
This is Robin Hood.

839
00:44:19,723 --> 00:44:22,067
It's the little man
against the system,

840
00:44:22,092 --> 00:44:24,299
the little man trying
to do something good.

841
00:44:24,328 --> 00:44:27,639
Banks. Who loves banks?
Anybody love a bank here?

842
00:44:27,665 --> 00:44:30,407
But I don't think
he was playing to the crowd.

843
00:44:32,803 --> 00:44:37,548
He was too involved in getting
him and Sal out of there alive.

844
00:44:41,812 --> 00:44:43,689
We didn't know how this thing
was going to end.

845
00:44:43,714 --> 00:44:46,194
Was he going to start shooting?

846
00:44:46,216 --> 00:44:47,820
Were they going to work
their way

847
00:44:47,851 --> 00:44:49,831
into that bank building somehow?

848
00:44:49,853 --> 00:44:52,595
That was what made those hours
tension-filled.

849
00:44:52,623 --> 00:44:55,968
We did not know how this
was going to resolve itself.

850
00:44:55,993 --> 00:45:00,169
As the day wore on,
we were becoming very depressed.

851
00:45:00,197 --> 00:45:01,972
We were tired. We were hot.

852
00:45:01,999 --> 00:45:04,240
We were hungry.
We were frightened.

853
00:45:04,268 --> 00:45:07,112
You name it, that's how we were,

854
00:45:07,137 --> 00:45:09,845
and by a couple of the things
that he said,

855
00:45:09,873 --> 00:45:14,344
I realized that he was friendly,
he wanted to be friendly.

856
00:45:14,378 --> 00:45:17,416
I mean, there was a purpose
why he was robbing the bank.

857
00:45:17,448 --> 00:45:20,258
He really didn't think that
it would take that long.

858
00:45:20,284 --> 00:45:21,991
He thought that he would be
in and out,

859
00:45:22,019 --> 00:45:25,091
but the way things happened,
he didn't get out.

860
00:45:25,122 --> 00:45:26,430
We spoke to him.

861
00:45:26,457 --> 00:45:28,994
He is making demands
for an escape route.

862
00:45:32,262 --> 00:45:34,401
The problems with the demands
of the escape route

863
00:45:34,431 --> 00:45:37,002
is that he wants to take the
hostages with him at this time.

864
00:45:37,034 --> 00:45:38,411
All of them?
All of them.

865
00:45:38,435 --> 00:45:40,176
And what does he want
in exchange?

866
00:45:40,204 --> 00:45:43,083
Does he want his lover?

867
00:45:43,107 --> 00:45:45,314
He did, and he does.

868
00:45:45,342 --> 00:45:48,084
We have his wife here.

869
00:45:48,112 --> 00:45:50,319
That was the reason
for the releasing the guard.

870
00:45:50,347 --> 00:45:52,384
That was the way
we got one guard out

871
00:45:52,416 --> 00:45:54,293
on that bargain to let him talk

872
00:45:54,318 --> 00:45:56,559
on the telephone.

873
00:45:56,587 --> 00:45:57,948
The wife is right
across the street

874
00:45:57,955 --> 00:46:00,629
but refuses to go near him.

875
00:46:00,657 --> 00:46:03,001
She believes John
to be unstable

876
00:46:03,026 --> 00:46:05,597
and will kill him.

877
00:46:05,629 --> 00:46:08,473
That's his current wife,
is it not?

878
00:46:08,499 --> 00:46:11,503
Well, I believe so,
unless he has 3 or 4.

879
00:47:11,562 --> 00:47:13,439
All of a sudden,
the cop gets on the phone.

880
00:47:13,463 --> 00:47:15,340
"Somebody's here to see you."

881
00:47:15,365 --> 00:47:17,538
So I think it's Ernie.

882
00:47:17,568 --> 00:47:20,515
So I go outside.
It ain't Ernie.

883
00:47:20,537 --> 00:47:23,541
I said, "What are you
doing here?"

884
00:47:23,574 --> 00:47:25,576
It's Patsy.

885
00:47:27,244 --> 00:47:31,590
Before I met Ernie, one of
my relationships was Patsy.

886
00:47:31,615 --> 00:47:36,928
So Patsy comes down
because Patsy really loves me.

887
00:47:42,993 --> 00:47:46,133
So I go outside,

888
00:47:46,163 --> 00:47:48,643
and I walk over to him,
and I tongue him.

889
00:47:50,234 --> 00:47:52,043
Oh!

890
00:47:54,338 --> 00:47:58,809
What people forget is,
in those days in a gay bar,

891
00:47:58,842 --> 00:48:01,083
you were not allowed
to touch each other.

892
00:48:01,111 --> 00:48:03,614
You couldn't walk down
the Village holding hands

893
00:48:03,647 --> 00:48:06,856
because the straights would
beat you up, or the cops would.

894
00:48:12,456 --> 00:48:15,369
The phone rings.
I says, "Hello?"

895
00:48:15,392 --> 00:48:18,430
He says, "This is the mayor."
I said, "The mayor who?"

896
00:48:18,462 --> 00:48:21,068
He said, "The Mayor of New York.
This is Mayor Lindsay."

897
00:48:21,098 --> 00:48:23,772
I says, "Yeah?
What do you want?"

898
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,441
He said, "We will kill
all the hostages to stop you

899
00:48:27,471 --> 00:48:32,045
"because you're not making
New York City look ridiculous.

900
00:48:32,075 --> 00:48:34,851
"You're not letting the
New York City Police Department

901
00:48:34,878 --> 00:48:36,323
"look ridiculous.

902
00:48:36,346 --> 00:48:39,225
The whole nation
is watching us."

903
00:48:45,756 --> 00:48:47,963
When he see me,
he turned his head.

904
00:48:47,991 --> 00:48:51,461
He felt more likely embarrassed

905
00:48:51,495 --> 00:48:54,442
because he's very close to me,
very attached.

906
00:48:54,464 --> 00:48:56,273
He's not that rugged.
He's timid.

907
00:48:56,300 --> 00:48:59,645
He might've been or try to be,
but he's not.

908
00:48:59,670 --> 00:49:03,516
He's very harmless,
no meanness in him.

909
00:49:03,540 --> 00:49:06,612
He's always been good-hearted.
You know what I mean?

910
00:49:06,643 --> 00:49:09,522
He's never been gambling or
drinking or anything like that.

911
00:49:47,751 --> 00:49:52,131
Very interesting quote
made by the other man...

912
00:49:52,155 --> 00:49:55,068
Wojahowitz,
whatever his name is.

913
00:49:55,092 --> 00:49:58,062
He said, "The Supreme Court
will let me get away with this.

914
00:49:58,095 --> 00:50:00,507
"There's no death penalty.
It's ridiculous.

915
00:50:00,530 --> 00:50:02,271
"I can shoot everyone here,

916
00:50:02,299 --> 00:50:04,802
and they can't put me
in the electric chair."

917
00:50:04,835 --> 00:50:07,475
I wonder what your response
to that would be?

918
00:50:07,504 --> 00:50:10,781
I have no response
to that, really.

919
00:50:10,807 --> 00:50:12,320
Later,
the two bank robbers demanded

920
00:50:12,342 --> 00:50:15,050
a plane at Kennedy Airport
and a car to get them there.

921
00:50:15,078 --> 00:50:17,080
Finally around 3:30
this morning,

922
00:50:17,114 --> 00:50:18,718
an airport limousine
pulled up at the bank

923
00:50:18,749 --> 00:50:20,783
with an FBI agent at the wheel.

924
00:50:20,784 --> 00:50:22,730
Only then did the second gunman
come out of the bank,

925
00:50:22,753 --> 00:50:24,426
a rifle slung over his shoulder.

926
00:50:24,454 --> 00:50:26,832
26-year old Salvatore Naturale
then joined Wojtowicz

927
00:50:26,857 --> 00:50:28,530
and their hostages
in their limousine

928
00:50:28,558 --> 00:50:31,164
and headed for Kennedy Airport.

929
00:50:31,194 --> 00:50:33,174
Along the way, they had
plenty of company.

930
00:50:33,196 --> 00:50:35,506
Perhaps 40 cars followed
carrying police

931
00:50:35,532 --> 00:50:37,409
and relatives of the hostages.

932
00:50:37,434 --> 00:50:38,777
The caravan would pass
through an airport gate

933
00:50:38,802 --> 00:50:40,748
leading to a secluded runway.

934
00:50:40,771 --> 00:50:42,546
The bank robbers had hoped
to make their escape

935
00:50:42,572 --> 00:50:43,915
in a small jet plane.

936
00:50:43,940 --> 00:50:44,918
They failed.

937
00:50:44,941 --> 00:50:46,648
The aircraft was rolling up,

938
00:50:46,676 --> 00:50:49,486
and as we were making plans
to depart from the limousine,

939
00:50:49,513 --> 00:50:54,087
we had a driver
in the limousine, an agent,

940
00:50:54,151 --> 00:50:56,597
and Mr. Baker and Mr. Feld
charged the men

941
00:50:56,620 --> 00:50:59,965
and diverted the shotgun
and the machine gun,

942
00:50:59,990 --> 00:51:02,402
and in the meantime, the agent
had a chance to shoot him

943
00:51:02,426 --> 00:51:04,872
and when one was shot,
the other immediately gave up.

944
00:51:11,401 --> 00:51:13,608
Naturale was killed by the FBI.

945
00:51:13,637 --> 00:51:15,446
Wojtowicz is in jail.

946
00:52:21,238 --> 00:52:22,945
OK. We're
in Brooklyn, New York.

947
00:52:22,973 --> 00:52:24,452
This is my brother Tony.

948
00:52:24,474 --> 00:52:26,954
He's been away since
he was 5 years old

949
00:52:26,977 --> 00:52:29,753
because he has epilepsy and he has
seizures and he forgets things.

950
00:52:29,779 --> 00:52:30,814
Yeah.

951
00:52:30,847 --> 00:52:32,360
And when he forgets things,

952
00:52:32,382 --> 00:52:34,982
he has to start all over from the
beginning like he was just born.

953
00:52:34,985 --> 00:52:36,328
Yeah.

954
00:52:36,353 --> 00:52:39,163
So if he has a seizure,
it's like going back to zero

955
00:52:39,189 --> 00:52:41,260
and then they got to
re-teach him everything.

956
00:52:41,291 --> 00:52:43,828
So once a year, he comes
down to New York to visit us

957
00:52:43,860 --> 00:52:46,500
and we take him out sightseeing
and to different places.

958
00:52:46,530 --> 00:52:47,497
Yeah.

959
00:52:47,531 --> 00:52:49,272
Today we took him
to Western Beef,

960
00:52:49,299 --> 00:52:50,744
a couple of blocks
from my mother's house.

961
00:52:50,767 --> 00:52:52,371
Yep.

962
00:52:52,402 --> 00:52:55,315
Then we're going to be going to Coney
Island to put him on the rides

963
00:52:55,338 --> 00:52:58,979
and show him some of the sights in
New York while he's here visiting.

964
00:52:59,009 --> 00:53:00,977
Yeah, well, we know that.

965
00:53:05,615 --> 00:53:09,495
I have two
brothers, one older and one younger,

966
00:53:09,519 --> 00:53:12,056
so I'm the middle one.

967
00:53:12,088 --> 00:53:17,197
My older brother, Tony... the court
took him away from my mother

968
00:53:17,227 --> 00:53:22,404
and put him in a state institution
that he's still in now.

969
00:53:22,432 --> 00:53:25,242
Have you two been to
Coney Island a lot together?

970
00:53:25,268 --> 00:53:28,010
Nope, never. First time.

971
00:53:28,038 --> 00:53:29,346
For him.

972
00:53:31,041 --> 00:53:33,112
No, I don't know what
you're talking about.

973
00:53:33,143 --> 00:53:35,521
You're out of your dick.

974
00:53:35,545 --> 00:53:38,526
We never went to Coney island...
stay in the middle lane.

975
00:53:40,016 --> 00:53:41,791
Always in the middle.

976
00:53:41,818 --> 00:53:44,628
'Cause these assholes don't know
where they're gonna get off.

977
00:54:15,318 --> 00:54:17,491
You do?
See what it says here?

978
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,000
Home of the Dog Eating Contest.

979
00:54:57,827 --> 00:54:59,204
All the way down, right?

980
00:54:59,229 --> 00:55:01,402
You see, that's
the ocean out there?

981
00:55:01,431 --> 00:55:02,739
Yeah.
Right?

982
00:55:02,766 --> 00:55:03,972
And you see the Wonder Wheel?

983
00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:32,106
That's
the way they play the game.

984
00:55:32,128 --> 00:55:33,539
I'm telling you.

985
00:55:33,563 --> 00:55:35,543
That's what they do.

986
00:55:35,565 --> 00:55:40,014
It's called the system, and the
system doesn't give a fuck.

987
00:55:45,008 --> 00:55:49,013
I can't believe we can't get a fucking
ride and they got no ice cream.

988
00:55:51,881 --> 00:55:54,316
My mother says I'm crazy.

989
00:55:54,317 --> 00:55:55,921
I say,
"Well we know that."

990
00:55:57,854 --> 00:55:59,458
I said, "You got to remember,

991
00:55:59,489 --> 00:56:03,130
"they only put the nuts that are
pretending in the nuthouse.

992
00:56:03,159 --> 00:56:06,140
The real ones,
they don't want."

993
00:56:06,162 --> 00:56:07,641
Yeah. Yeah.

994
00:56:07,664 --> 00:56:09,632
I've been in a couple of them.

995
00:56:09,666 --> 00:56:12,772
Yeah, they're not too bad.

996
00:56:12,802 --> 00:56:14,338
Yeah.

997
00:56:14,371 --> 00:56:16,044
The cops for robbing.

998
00:56:18,241 --> 00:56:19,549
No, I did.

999
00:56:21,077 --> 00:56:23,057
Yep. We're gonna
pass it.

1000
00:56:23,079 --> 00:56:25,559
Yeah, we should drive by it.

1001
00:56:25,582 --> 00:56:27,528
Avenue P and East 3rd.

1002
00:56:27,550 --> 00:56:28,995
Yeah. Yeah.

1003
00:56:32,021 --> 00:56:36,333
Yeah, we got almost a quarter
of a million dollars.

1004
00:56:36,359 --> 00:56:40,000
Quarter of a million dollars.

1005
00:56:40,029 --> 00:56:42,737
From the bank.

1006
00:56:42,766 --> 00:56:46,111
No, no, no. A quarter
of a million dollars.

1007
00:56:46,136 --> 00:56:49,015
That's $250,000.

1008
00:56:49,038 --> 00:56:51,018
Yeah.

1009
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,021
You know, being we're down
here, we'll take a peek.

1010
00:56:54,043 --> 00:56:56,023
Yeah.

1011
00:57:00,984 --> 00:57:04,397
OK. Let's see
what they did.

1012
00:57:04,421 --> 00:57:06,025
Where, down here?

1013
00:57:06,055 --> 00:57:09,867
OK, that...
let's see.

1014
00:57:09,893 --> 00:57:12,533
That red awning that's
across the street,

1015
00:57:12,562 --> 00:57:15,543
that should've been
where the bank is.

1016
00:57:17,066 --> 00:57:20,741
Do you believe they
changed my bank into a...

1017
00:57:20,770 --> 00:57:22,841
The bank I robbed right here.

1018
00:57:22,872 --> 00:57:25,045
They changed it into
a Brooklyn Medical.

1019
00:57:29,913 --> 00:57:34,828
I'm here since 1929.
I had a ladies fashion store.

1020
00:57:34,884 --> 00:57:38,991
Well, anyway, when I had my store
there, I was having a check certified.

1021
00:57:39,022 --> 00:57:42,367
And I went into the bank
not realizing these...

1022
00:57:42,392 --> 00:57:47,671
So I understood, they were waiting for the
last one to leave the bank, which was me.

1023
00:57:47,697 --> 00:57:50,507
The guy who did it,
I think he's still alive.

1024
00:57:50,533 --> 00:57:54,071
Where he is,
the detective may know.

1025
00:57:54,103 --> 00:57:56,515
You know where he is, this guy?

1026
00:57:56,539 --> 00:57:57,882
Yeah.

1027
00:57:57,907 --> 00:57:59,318
Oh, you can tell me.
I'm not gonna...

1028
00:57:59,342 --> 00:58:03,950
Well, he's actually across the
street right now, with us.

1029
00:58:03,980 --> 00:58:05,584
I don't know if you'd
want to meet him.

1030
00:58:05,615 --> 00:58:07,094
Oh, I don't care.

1031
00:58:07,116 --> 00:58:08,925
How do you do?

1032
00:58:10,186 --> 00:58:12,166
Good, Good. And you?

1033
00:58:12,188 --> 00:58:13,360
Stan.

1034
00:58:13,389 --> 00:58:15,027
Tony.
How do you do, Tony?

1035
00:58:15,058 --> 00:58:16,731
Big John, how are you?

1036
00:58:16,759 --> 00:58:17,999
How's everything?

1037
00:58:18,027 --> 00:58:19,540
OK. how are you?

1038
00:58:19,562 --> 00:58:21,701
I give two.
I'm Italian.

1039
00:58:21,731 --> 00:58:26,976
OK. Now, wait a minute, were
you Al Pacino in the movie,

1040
00:58:27,003 --> 00:58:29,244
or was the other guy?
Who was Al Pacino?

1041
00:58:29,272 --> 00:58:31,946
I'm the bank robber.
Fuck Al Pacino.

1042
00:58:31,975 --> 00:58:36,321
I'm like Babe
Ruth, but I'm the gay Babe Ruth, right?

1043
00:58:36,346 --> 00:58:37,723
I hit a home run.

1044
00:58:37,747 --> 00:58:39,317
Know why I hit a home run?

1045
00:58:39,349 --> 00:58:42,159
Because I beat
the fucking system.

1046
00:58:42,185 --> 00:58:43,960
I won.

1047
00:58:43,987 --> 00:58:45,955
I didn't lose. I won.

1048
00:58:45,989 --> 00:58:48,060
Ernie got the sex change.

1049
00:58:48,091 --> 00:58:50,128
Ernie lived.

1050
00:58:50,159 --> 00:58:51,832
Ernie was happy.

1051
00:58:51,861 --> 00:58:55,502
Ernie survived,
and I'm happy for that.

1052
00:58:58,034 --> 00:58:59,911
Am I rattling too much?

1053
00:58:59,936 --> 00:59:01,006
No, no.

1054
00:59:01,037 --> 00:59:02,448
Oh, you want detail.

1055
00:59:02,472 --> 00:59:03,951
OK.

1056
00:59:08,611 --> 00:59:10,591
OK. hold on a minute.

1057
00:59:10,613 --> 00:59:13,093
I have to clarify one thing.

1058
00:59:16,052 --> 00:59:21,525
I have skin cancer of this ear,
which is my right ear.

1059
00:59:21,558 --> 00:59:24,232
I have breast cancer.

1060
00:59:24,260 --> 00:59:28,072
I ain't gonna go
through that crap.

1061
00:59:28,097 --> 00:59:30,543
I'm waiting for them to
tell me how many days,

1062
00:59:30,567 --> 00:59:32,535
so I can go party.

1063
00:59:38,575 --> 00:59:41,055
OK. Let's go.

1064
00:59:41,077 --> 00:59:42,715
Quiet on the set.

1065
00:59:45,381 --> 00:59:47,156
Scene 5.

1066
00:59:50,153 --> 00:59:52,997
OK, they took me to the
Port Authority Headquarters

1067
00:59:53,022 --> 00:59:54,968
at Kennedy Airport.

1068
00:59:54,991 --> 00:59:58,768
Then the Port Authority police
accompanied me to FBI headquarters

1069
00:59:58,795 --> 01:00:01,969
on 69th Street in Manhattan,

1070
01:00:01,998 --> 01:00:05,070
and that's where
they grilled me further.

1071
01:00:05,101 --> 01:00:07,172
They wouldn't believe
the true story...

1072
01:00:07,203 --> 01:00:10,446
that I was robbing the bank to get
my lover a sex change operation...

1073
01:00:10,473 --> 01:00:15,081
so I had to invent a story,
and then I signed the confession

1074
01:00:15,111 --> 01:00:17,614
that it was the Vice President
of Chase Manhattan Bank

1075
01:00:17,647 --> 01:00:21,316
that told us everything
and how to do it.

1076
01:00:21,317 --> 01:00:24,924
From there, they took me
to the Federal Holding Pen

1077
01:00:24,954 --> 01:00:27,958
in Lower Manhattan
on West 11th Street.

1078
01:00:34,998 --> 01:00:37,638
There was someone else
that had walked in with them,

1079
01:00:37,667 --> 01:00:39,305
and he ran out,
he chickened out.

1080
01:00:39,335 --> 01:00:40,643
So, there's a third man?

1081
01:00:40,670 --> 01:00:41,774
<i>Mm-hmm.</i>

1082
01:00:41,804 --> 01:00:43,249
This individual,
the third arrested,

1083
01:00:43,272 --> 01:00:46,276
is Robert Arthur Westenberg.

1084
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:48,550
He was arrested
by FBI agents today.

1085
01:00:48,578 --> 01:00:52,890
We're charging that Westenberg
fled from the scene

1086
01:00:52,915 --> 01:00:56,158
before the police
actually moved in.

1087
01:00:56,185 --> 01:00:58,927
This was
the story of the hour,

1088
01:00:58,955 --> 01:01:03,768
but the reaction of
the Gay Activist Alliance

1089
01:01:03,793 --> 01:01:05,670
was one of horror.

1090
01:01:05,695 --> 01:01:07,971
They would simply say, we don't
want to be involved with him

1091
01:01:07,997 --> 01:01:10,136
in any way 'cause he's
a mentally ill person.

1092
01:01:10,166 --> 01:01:12,840
I mean, that was generally the
consensus of the gay community.

1093
01:01:12,869 --> 01:01:14,576
He was nuts.

1094
01:01:14,604 --> 01:01:18,916
At the time, we thought it
was a terrible thing, you know?

1095
01:01:18,941 --> 01:01:23,447
The fact is, he terrorized however
many people were in the bank,

1096
01:01:23,479 --> 01:01:27,052
and he was the direct cause
of somebody being blown away

1097
01:01:27,083 --> 01:01:29,461
and witnessed by some
of these hostages, also,

1098
01:01:29,485 --> 01:01:31,897
whatever that did to
their heads, you know.

1099
01:01:31,921 --> 01:01:34,424
That's not a Robin Hood to me.

1100
01:01:34,457 --> 01:01:37,267
That's a very sick person.

1101
01:01:37,293 --> 01:01:40,467
So I was the only voice
in the gay activist community.

1102
01:01:40,496 --> 01:01:44,569
I mean, I felt that John was
being railroaded to some degree

1103
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,978
because he was homosexual
and no one seemed to care.

1104
01:01:49,539 --> 01:01:50,950
As a gay reporter,

1105
01:01:50,973 --> 01:01:54,011
I wanted to go out and
find out what I could.

1106
01:01:54,043 --> 01:01:59,459
So I met Bobby Westenberg and I talked
to friends of Sal's in the Village,

1107
01:01:59,482 --> 01:02:03,487
who said he wasn't the nasty person
everyone portrayed him to be.

1108
01:02:03,519 --> 01:02:06,693
He just hated jail, because I guess he
had been raped in jail or whatever,

1109
01:02:06,723 --> 01:02:08,930
said he'd rather die
than go back to jail,

1110
01:02:08,958 --> 01:02:12,428
and I wrote these long,
detailed articles about this.

1111
01:02:12,462 --> 01:02:14,908
So I had a whole different take.

1112
01:02:14,931 --> 01:02:19,243
Today, I'm Randy Wicker and
I'm talking with Ernest Aron,

1113
01:02:19,268 --> 01:02:23,410
the boy who John Wojtowicz demanded be
brought to the scene of the robbery.

1114
01:02:23,439 --> 01:02:28,513
Now, do you consider yourself a
homosexual or a transsexual or what?

1115
01:02:28,544 --> 01:02:30,581
No, I'm a transsexual.

1116
01:02:30,613 --> 01:02:33,924
I'm attempting to pay for a
sex change which is in the...

1117
01:02:33,950 --> 01:02:37,955
right now, it seems impossible
but I'm attempting to do it.

1118
01:02:37,987 --> 01:02:41,867
I have to raise somewhere in
the neighborhood of $2,500,

1119
01:02:41,891 --> 01:02:45,464
and, uh... l just hope
I can do it.

1120
01:02:45,495 --> 01:02:47,031
I know John wants it now.

1121
01:02:47,063 --> 01:02:50,272
He never did want it before, but now
he wants it more than anything.

1122
01:02:50,299 --> 01:02:54,748
Liz Eden, suddenly
she has this national fame

1123
01:02:54,771 --> 01:02:56,978
as a pre-operative
transsexual.

1124
01:02:57,006 --> 01:03:01,887
So now, if you're gonna live that moment of
fame out, you've got to have the operation.

1125
01:03:01,911 --> 01:03:05,449
I understand that John was
very opposed to this operation

1126
01:03:05,481 --> 01:03:08,223
when you first told him that you
wanted it a few months ago.

1127
01:03:08,224 --> 01:03:09,662
Yes, he was.

1128
01:03:09,685 --> 01:03:11,426
He didn't want me to have it
because he didn't know

1129
01:03:11,454 --> 01:03:14,492
what his reactions would be
to me after the sex change,

1130
01:03:14,524 --> 01:03:17,437
but now he feels that he
could love me either way,

1131
01:03:17,460 --> 01:03:19,406
<i>as a man or as a woman.</i>

1132
01:03:19,428 --> 01:03:23,103
I understand that John is
still married to Carmen,

1133
01:03:23,132 --> 01:03:25,408
his wife, and they
have two children

1134
01:03:25,434 --> 01:03:28,210
and in my conversations
with his wife Carmen,

1135
01:03:28,237 --> 01:03:31,275
she feels that John isn't
really a homosexual.

1136
01:03:31,307 --> 01:03:33,878
Well, I don't even
consider him a homosexual

1137
01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:35,753
as long as he goes
to bed with women.

1138
01:03:35,778 --> 01:03:37,485
I think he's bisexual.

1139
01:03:37,513 --> 01:03:39,186
I think he leans
heavily towards women,

1140
01:03:39,215 --> 01:03:42,458
otherwise he wouldn't want me to make
such a drastic change in my life.

1141
01:03:42,485 --> 01:03:44,556
He continued going
to bed with women

1142
01:03:44,587 --> 01:03:46,498
even after he was
married to you?

1143
01:03:46,522 --> 01:03:47,728
Yes.

1144
01:03:47,757 --> 01:03:51,068
He saw his wife at least
once or twice a week.

1145
01:03:51,093 --> 01:03:52,538
Sexually?

1146
01:03:52,562 --> 01:03:54,508
Oh, yeah, sexually.

1147
01:03:54,530 --> 01:04:00,503
I believe that John sometimes uses
his friends to fight his battles.

1148
01:04:00,536 --> 01:04:06,851
He sort of makes sure that each person
knows that he's in love with him only,

1149
01:04:06,876 --> 01:04:08,514
and then, of course,
when they get together,

1150
01:04:08,544 --> 01:04:09,921
they fight over him.

1151
01:04:09,946 --> 01:04:11,721
I think it's a wrong
thing he's doing,

1152
01:04:11,747 --> 01:04:13,658
but unfortunately,
there are a lot of people

1153
01:04:13,683 --> 01:04:18,291
that do care for John and
if we have to fight over him,

1154
01:04:18,321 --> 01:04:21,495
we have to fight over him, and
that's all there is to it.

1155
01:04:23,860 --> 01:04:27,330
My lawyer came to me,
I think in October and said

1156
01:04:27,363 --> 01:04:31,277
people have been talking about making
a movie and if I was interested.

1157
01:04:31,300 --> 01:04:32,904
Right?

1158
01:04:32,935 --> 01:04:36,041
And I told him, "Hell no,
I don't want no movie." Right?

1159
01:04:36,072 --> 01:04:39,246
Then Liz came and said, "Hey, hey, hey,
they want to make a movie," you know.

1160
01:04:39,275 --> 01:04:42,347
"We're gonna get money, you know. I
gotta get the sex change," you know.

1161
01:04:42,378 --> 01:04:46,053
"You make the movie, you get the money,
I get the sex change," you know.

1162
01:04:46,082 --> 01:04:48,028
And then I says,
"Yeah, all right,"

1163
01:04:48,050 --> 01:04:50,621
and then I signed the paper.

1164
01:04:53,589 --> 01:04:58,095
And the last time I saw him was
after he had the sex change.

1165
01:04:58,127 --> 01:05:02,633
OK, he had it on March 27, 1973.

1166
01:05:02,665 --> 01:05:06,477
He came to see me and he said, "I talked
to my doctors and my psychiatrist."

1167
01:05:06,502 --> 01:05:10,075
And he said, "I will never see
you again. It's not good for me.

1168
01:05:10,106 --> 01:05:14,953
"It won't help me. I have to leave,
start my own life as a real woman

1169
01:05:14,977 --> 01:05:16,581
and have nothing
to do with you."

1170
01:05:16,612 --> 01:05:20,082
And Ernie got up and left.

1171
01:05:20,116 --> 01:05:26,761
So on Saturday, April 26th,
I went to confession.

1172
01:05:26,789 --> 01:05:29,531
On Sunday, I went to communion.

1173
01:05:29,558 --> 01:05:32,368
Then after that,
I out my wrists

1174
01:05:32,395 --> 01:05:35,535
and sat on the toilet bowl
and cut my forearms,

1175
01:05:35,564 --> 01:05:38,841
like the Romans used to do,
and tried to bleed to death.

1176
01:05:38,868 --> 01:05:42,042
Instead, I became unconscious
and passed out.

1177
01:05:42,071 --> 01:05:45,280
And they took me to the
hospital and stitched me up.

1178
01:05:45,308 --> 01:05:47,720
Then they brought me back
to the prison on a Monday,

1179
01:05:47,743 --> 01:05:49,950
and they said I had to go
to be sentenced.

1180
01:05:49,979 --> 01:05:51,822
So they took me to
the Federal Court,

1181
01:05:51,847 --> 01:05:53,849
and I don't remember
what happened.

1182
01:05:53,883 --> 01:05:55,419
He was so out of it.

1183
01:05:55,451 --> 01:05:58,022
He was all bandaged up
and he was like this.

1184
01:05:58,054 --> 01:06:00,330
"Mr. Wojtowicz,"
Travia asked,

1185
01:06:00,356 --> 01:06:03,269
"do you have anything to say
before I pronounce sentence?"

1186
01:06:03,292 --> 01:06:07,001
And Wojtowicz says, "Love is
a very strange thing."

1187
01:06:07,029 --> 01:06:09,532
Wojtowicz began
in a low, even tone.

1188
01:06:09,565 --> 01:06:12,444
"Some feel it more
deeply than others do.

1189
01:06:12,468 --> 01:06:18,043
"I love my wife Carmen, my son, my
daughter, my mother, and I love Ernie.

1190
01:06:18,074 --> 01:06:19,917
"I love all of them.

1191
01:06:19,942 --> 01:06:22,252
"I know it was wrong
to rob the bank,

1192
01:06:22,278 --> 01:06:24,519
but what is money
compared to human life?"

1193
01:06:24,547 --> 01:06:25,908
I said, "Don't you
love your wife?"

1194
01:06:25,915 --> 01:06:27,189
He goes, "Yeah

1195
01:06:27,216 --> 01:06:29,992
I said, "Well, imagine your
wife is dying of cancer

1196
01:06:30,019 --> 01:06:34,092
"and you didn't have the money
and you needed $10,000,

1197
01:06:34,123 --> 01:06:36,034
"and you couldn't get it,
you tried everything to get it.

1198
01:06:36,058 --> 01:06:38,902
"You tried to borrow it, tried to
make deals, nothing worked out,

1199
01:06:38,928 --> 01:06:43,001
wouldn't you do something illegal to
get the $10,000 to save your wife?"

1200
01:06:43,032 --> 01:06:44,375
He said, "No.".

1201
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,402
I said, "Well, then you don't
know anything about love.

1202
01:06:46,435 --> 01:06:50,008
"In fact, you don't fucking love your
wife, because if you loved your wife,

1203
01:06:50,039 --> 01:06:54,021
"you would kill for her, you would
do anything for her to save her.

1204
01:06:54,043 --> 01:06:57,752
"So don't talk to me about love because
you don't love your fucking wife.

1205
01:06:57,780 --> 01:07:01,421
You don't even know what
the fuck love is all about."

1206
01:07:01,450 --> 01:07:03,361
And then he sentenced me.

1207
01:07:03,386 --> 01:07:06,993
Terry yelled out in court, "Have
mercy on my son, Your Honor."

1208
01:07:07,023 --> 01:07:11,529
Like that, she was screaming, and he got
sentenced to Lewisburg Penitentiary.

1209
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:16,532
I was like, "Wow, he's there forever now," and
that's all I thought. That's all I thought.

1210
01:07:16,565 --> 01:07:17,839
That was it.

1211
01:07:20,836 --> 01:07:24,545
OK. we told Liz that John would
be speaking directly to her

1212
01:07:24,573 --> 01:07:26,450
from jail on today's show,

1213
01:07:26,475 --> 01:07:27,818
so let's hear
what he has to say.

1214
01:07:27,843 --> 01:07:30,790
This is to you, Liz.

1215
01:07:30,813 --> 01:07:35,091
Do you have any message you'd
like to give Liz today?

1216
01:07:35,151 --> 01:07:38,223
If you do, would you
like to do it right now?

1217
01:07:38,254 --> 01:07:41,997
- Yeah.
- OK.

1218
01:07:42,024 --> 01:07:44,527
I love you a great deal,

1219
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:46,836
and I did what I did
because I loved you

1220
01:07:46,862 --> 01:07:50,901
and I wanted you to be happy,
and I don't regret doing it

1221
01:07:50,933 --> 01:07:53,038
because it saved your life.

1222
01:07:53,069 --> 01:07:56,278
And all I want you to
do is to be happy.

1223
01:07:56,305 --> 01:07:58,979
And I know I don't see you, and
I know I don't hear from you,

1224
01:07:59,008 --> 01:08:01,716
but as long as you're happy,
that's all that counts

1225
01:08:01,744 --> 01:08:04,452
because I love you.

1226
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:06,084
That's it.

1227
01:08:09,051 --> 01:08:12,055
Are you happy?

1228
01:08:12,088 --> 01:08:14,694
Not as happy as I would be
if he was out here.

1229
01:08:14,723 --> 01:08:17,101
What was so
special about Ernie?

1230
01:08:17,126 --> 01:08:19,538
How did you fall in love
with him in the first place?

1231
01:08:19,562 --> 01:08:21,041
I don't know.

1232
01:08:21,063 --> 01:08:24,533
My wife, Carmen, always
asks me that question,

1233
01:08:24,567 --> 01:08:26,274
and I said, "I don't know."

1234
01:08:26,302 --> 01:08:30,512
Because if I knew why I loved him,
then maybe I could stop loving him,

1235
01:08:30,539 --> 01:08:32,712
but when you don't know
why you love somebody...

1236
01:08:32,741 --> 01:08:34,914
because he's lousy in bed.

1237
01:08:34,944 --> 01:08:39,256
Out of all the guys and girls I've been
to bed with, he's one of the worst.

1238
01:08:39,281 --> 01:08:41,022
Do you ever think of him
in that prison?

1239
01:08:41,050 --> 01:08:42,552
I mean, when you're getting
ready to go out at night,

1240
01:08:42,585 --> 01:08:45,156
do you ever think of John
being locked up in his cell?

1241
01:08:45,187 --> 01:08:48,828
There isn't a day that doesn't
pass that I don't think of John.

1242
01:08:48,858 --> 01:08:52,704
When I got to Lewisburg,
they beat me up because they told me

1243
01:08:52,728 --> 01:08:54,401
I was in the big house now.

1244
01:08:54,430 --> 01:08:56,535
And I said, "it doesn't
look so big to me."

1245
01:08:56,565 --> 01:09:02,015
So they beat me some more,
and that's where I met George.

1246
01:09:02,037 --> 01:09:04,278
He was a jailhouse lawyer.

1247
01:09:04,306 --> 01:09:07,116
He did the legal work
that got my time cut.

1248
01:09:07,143 --> 01:09:09,089
He was also black and Irish.

1249
01:09:10,613 --> 01:09:17,462
Lewisburg, Pennsylvania,
is a very rough, tough facility.

1250
01:09:17,486 --> 01:09:20,660
More than half the
inmates carried weapons,

1251
01:09:20,689 --> 01:09:23,533
and when I got to Lewisburg,

1252
01:09:23,559 --> 01:09:26,631
they were getting ready
to kill John.

1253
01:09:26,662 --> 01:09:30,701
There was a time when they
were killing an inmate every month.

1254
01:09:30,733 --> 01:09:35,307
There were times when inmates were
being stabbed every day in the place.

1255
01:09:35,337 --> 01:09:38,079
When your door opened up
at 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning,

1256
01:09:38,107 --> 01:09:40,587
you didn't know if they were
going to come in and beat you,

1257
01:09:40,609 --> 01:09:44,056
rape you, rob you, or whatever.

1258
01:09:44,079 --> 01:09:47,458
John
was very vulnerable.

1259
01:09:47,483 --> 01:09:51,989
Someone like myself, that
carried a knife all of the time,

1260
01:09:52,021 --> 01:09:57,494
they didn't bother because I was
considered a tough guy.

1261
01:09:57,526 --> 01:10:02,999
I was arrested for bank robbery,
kidnapping, the whole works.

1262
01:10:03,032 --> 01:10:07,276
Of course, John, he couldn't
associate with anyone

1263
01:10:07,303 --> 01:10:10,773
because of the fact that
they considered him gay.

1264
01:10:10,806 --> 01:10:13,082
He was gay.
They didn't like him.

1265
01:10:13,108 --> 01:10:16,351
They were making a movie about
him, so they were jealous of him.

1266
01:10:16,378 --> 01:10:19,723
They were just, "Oh,
let's do something to him.

1267
01:10:19,748 --> 01:10:22,422
Maybe we can get a name
for ourselves."

1268
01:10:22,451 --> 01:10:25,489
So he had to fend for himself.

1269
01:10:25,521 --> 01:10:28,525
I was working
in the laundry, OK,

1270
01:10:28,557 --> 01:10:31,766
and I was raped by 3 guys
from Washington, D.C.

1271
01:10:31,794 --> 01:10:33,762
They hit me in the head
with a lead pipe, right,

1272
01:10:33,796 --> 01:10:36,402
knocked me out, and
they raped me repeatedly.

1273
01:10:36,432 --> 01:10:38,810
I still have dreams
to this day.

1274
01:10:38,834 --> 01:10:40,814
I woke up,
I was in the hospital.

1275
01:10:40,836 --> 01:10:42,679
They operated on me.

1276
01:10:42,705 --> 01:10:44,480
I was in tremendous pain.

1277
01:10:44,506 --> 01:10:48,454
Then they finally let me
back out into population.

1278
01:10:48,477 --> 01:10:50,388
I felt sorry
for John.

1279
01:10:50,412 --> 01:10:53,825
So when I took John under my
wing, they left him alone,

1280
01:10:53,849 --> 01:10:57,956
but they would nag at him
occasionally if I wasn't around.

1281
01:10:57,987 --> 01:11:00,797
I don't think that he
realized the consequences

1282
01:11:00,823 --> 01:11:03,929
of things that
he would do or say.

1283
01:11:03,959 --> 01:11:08,430
He didn't care about
what might occur.

1284
01:11:08,464 --> 01:11:14,073
He was just there
and not there mentally.

1285
01:11:14,103 --> 01:11:17,312
The 7 years I was in
prison, I spent more time in segregation

1286
01:11:17,339 --> 01:11:20,912
than I did out in
actual population,

1287
01:11:20,943 --> 01:11:24,823
but I don't linger
on that too much.

1288
01:11:24,847 --> 01:11:29,057
My attitude is, I'm from the old
school and I'm old-fashioned Italian,

1289
01:11:29,084 --> 01:11:32,065
I'm a male chauvinist pig,
and I'm the fucking boss,

1290
01:11:32,087 --> 01:11:33,395
and I run things.

1291
01:11:33,422 --> 01:11:36,266
You run the prison,
you do your thing.

1292
01:11:36,292 --> 01:11:38,135
I run me.
I do my thing.

1293
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:39,969
You don't bug me.
I don't bug you.

1294
01:11:39,995 --> 01:11:44,774
You bug me, we have
a problem, and that's it.

1295
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,007
He was bad.

1296
01:11:47,036 --> 01:11:52,475
John was, to me, a bad,
crazy individual,

1297
01:11:52,508 --> 01:11:56,183
but the thing I liked about
John... he had a lot of heart.

1298
01:11:56,211 --> 01:12:01,889
George and I got married
in the prison yard in 1974.

1299
01:12:01,950 --> 01:12:07,127
I met him on July 16th, OK, and that's
also my wife Carmen's birthday,

1300
01:12:07,156 --> 01:12:11,536
my female wife, and I married
him 2 weeks later on the 31st.

1301
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:19,206
I considered it a marriage
because John was on the marriage trail.

1302
01:12:19,234 --> 01:12:21,111
He loved to be married.

1303
01:12:21,136 --> 01:12:23,639
He had to have a wife.

1304
01:12:23,672 --> 01:12:30,647
So I became his third wife.

1305
01:12:30,679 --> 01:12:35,185
I've always been in the
gay life to some degree.

1306
01:12:35,217 --> 01:12:42,692
I had been in drag, I had been in shows, and
John immediately gravitated towards that.

1307
01:12:42,725 --> 01:12:49,665
His wife came up, and John would have me wave
out the window to her and stuff like that.

1308
01:12:49,698 --> 01:12:53,840
I don't know if he actually
described me as his new wife,

1309
01:12:53,869 --> 01:12:56,816
while she was coming up, but
she did come with the kids.

1310
01:12:56,839 --> 01:13:00,252
I considered him
my husband up until 1978.

1311
01:13:00,275 --> 01:13:02,949
He would send me flowers
from the prison,

1312
01:13:02,978 --> 01:13:07,320
and it would be yellow roses or flowers
for an occasion or something like that.

1313
01:13:07,321 --> 01:13:09,020
Always with the flowers,
you know.

1314
01:13:09,021 --> 01:13:10,496
Letters, constant letters,

1315
01:13:10,519 --> 01:13:13,466
and then he'd give me orders what
to send him, what he wanted.

1316
01:13:13,489 --> 01:13:15,765
He would want this, he would
want that, you know,

1317
01:13:15,791 --> 01:13:20,365
things he wanted to eat like chips, the
joy of a Jewish candy, the jelly rings.

1318
01:13:20,396 --> 01:13:23,309
Get me a couple of candy
bars, you know, like Snickers.

1319
01:13:23,332 --> 01:13:26,870
You know, I prefer Mounds.
I like Junior Mints and Mounds.

1320
01:13:26,902 --> 01:13:29,439
Not Almond Joy. Mounds.

1321
01:13:29,471 --> 01:13:33,248
Mars Bars and then
the 3 Musketeers.

1322
01:13:33,275 --> 01:13:35,812
Just put like Chuckles
next to it.

1323
01:13:58,634 --> 01:14:02,207
Like what kind of stuff?

1324
01:14:25,394 --> 01:14:28,034
Mom, what are you
doing down here?

1325
01:14:28,063 --> 01:14:29,770
Run. Run. Run.

1326
01:14:29,798 --> 01:14:31,106
Where am I gonna run?

1327
01:14:38,373 --> 01:14:41,547
I was in prison with
John when the movie came out,

1328
01:14:41,577 --> 01:14:46,151
and they showed it
to John first in private

1329
01:14:46,181 --> 01:14:48,991
and then they showed it
to the general population.

1330
01:14:52,588 --> 01:14:55,296
For the people of the
neighborhood, it was a sideshow.

1331
01:14:55,324 --> 01:14:56,564
Sonny.

1332
01:14:56,592 --> 01:14:58,094
Sonny!

1333
01:14:58,126 --> 01:15:01,903
But for Sonny and
Sal, the hostages and the cops,

1334
01:15:01,930 --> 01:15:03,807
it was a "Dog Day Afternoon."

1335
01:15:03,832 --> 01:15:05,912
The warden said,
"We're not showing this."

1336
01:15:05,934 --> 01:15:08,414
And I said, "if you don't show this
in the prison, I'll go to the press

1337
01:15:08,437 --> 01:15:11,475
"and I'll hang you by
your fucking cannolis,

1338
01:15:11,507 --> 01:15:14,113
"and I'll start the biggest
prison riot you ever saw.

1339
01:15:14,142 --> 01:15:18,147
"I want the fucking movie shown and
I want it shown to the inmates

1340
01:15:18,180 --> 01:15:20,717
"because I promised them
for years, because nobody

1341
01:15:20,749 --> 01:15:22,285
believed there was
gonna be a movie."

1342
01:15:33,529 --> 01:15:36,499
A lot of people from all
over the country wrote to John

1343
01:15:36,532 --> 01:15:38,705
because of the movie.

1344
01:15:38,734 --> 01:15:43,114
A lot of people liked what
John stood for in the movie.

1345
01:15:43,138 --> 01:15:47,245
He would try to answer
as many letters as he could,

1346
01:15:47,276 --> 01:15:52,248
and I think that he picked out a lot
of letters that were more romantic,

1347
01:15:52,281 --> 01:15:55,583
and he enjoyed it.

1348
01:15:55,584 --> 01:15:57,860
Everybody knew
who he was. Everybody.

1349
01:15:57,886 --> 01:16:01,356
You would see everybody turn around, looking,
you know, "That's the guy from "Dog Day."

1350
01:16:01,390 --> 01:16:03,529
You know, everybody
in the prison.

1351
01:16:03,559 --> 01:16:06,267
People would come up for autographs,
and he would love that.

1352
01:16:06,295 --> 01:16:08,536
Oh, yeah.
He was... ooh!

1353
01:16:08,564 --> 01:16:11,738
We never
became cellmates.

1354
01:16:11,767 --> 01:16:14,043
He was too hot.

1355
01:16:14,069 --> 01:16:15,810
He was a hot potato

1356
01:16:15,837 --> 01:16:19,876
because of the publicity
that he was generating

1357
01:16:19,908 --> 01:16:24,914
and the publicity that I
was generating also for him

1358
01:16:24,947 --> 01:16:27,757
in terms of his criminal case.

1359
01:16:27,783 --> 01:16:31,754
Because at the time of sentencing,
he had swallowed pills.

1360
01:16:31,787 --> 01:16:36,600
He's already crazy, so he definitely was
out of his mind at the time of sentencing.

1361
01:16:36,625 --> 01:16:42,632
So on a legal level, he really was
deprived of his right to due process,

1362
01:16:42,664 --> 01:16:49,741
and the court did reduce his sentence
when he went back for re-sentencing.

1363
01:16:53,742 --> 01:16:57,918
New York City is a place of
contrast and contradiction.

1364
01:16:57,946 --> 01:17:02,452
Studio 54 here is a shrine to
the city's celebrity cult.

1365
01:17:02,517 --> 01:17:06,192
People who come here are either
famous or want to be famous,

1366
01:17:06,221 --> 01:17:08,997
but just 50 yards
down the street here

1367
01:17:09,024 --> 01:17:12,904
is a building which people enter
for very different reasons.

1368
01:17:12,928 --> 01:17:16,171
The Hotel Bryant is a federal
prison halfway house.

1369
01:17:16,198 --> 01:17:18,508
One man living in this
fleabag hotel

1370
01:17:18,533 --> 01:17:23,539
can lay claim to being one of the most
celebrated losers in recent times.

1371
01:17:23,572 --> 01:17:27,315
The story of the life of
John Wojtowicz is so bizarre

1372
01:17:27,342 --> 01:17:30,050
that even the jaded people of
New York and Hollywood

1373
01:17:30,078 --> 01:17:31,751
find it unbelievable.

1374
01:17:37,252 --> 01:17:41,667
OK. what happened is that
after the judge out my sentence to 15,

1375
01:17:41,690 --> 01:17:45,194
he recommended that the
parole board release me.

1376
01:17:45,227 --> 01:17:50,336
So at the end of '78,
I was sent to the Bryant Hotel.

1377
01:17:50,365 --> 01:17:52,675
You're only allowed to
stay there for so long,

1378
01:17:52,701 --> 01:17:57,650
and you have to get a job or
they send you back to prison.

1379
01:17:57,673 --> 01:18:02,952
OK. I finally got a job cleaning toilet
bowls on Park Avenue for the rich people,

1380
01:18:02,978 --> 01:18:06,585
and then finally,
I went back to my parents.

1381
01:18:11,653 --> 01:18:14,497
I was released in 1978,

1382
01:18:14,523 --> 01:18:20,405
and I must have lived with John
and Terry for 9 or 10 months

1383
01:18:20,429 --> 01:18:24,036
at their Flatbush Avenue
apartment.

1384
01:18:24,066 --> 01:18:28,173
John still saw me as his wife,

1385
01:18:28,203 --> 01:18:33,016
and we stayed with each other
while we were out for 2 years.

1386
01:18:37,846 --> 01:18:42,124
Eventually, John got work
with Project Return.

1387
01:18:42,150 --> 01:18:47,429
This was an inmate organization
that helped ex-cons.

1388
01:18:47,456 --> 01:18:50,767
I only got to work
at Project Return for a couple of months,

1389
01:18:50,792 --> 01:18:53,796
and then they had to lay me off
because of a budget crunch and

1390
01:18:53,829 --> 01:18:55,638
then they threatened
to lock me back up

1391
01:18:55,664 --> 01:18:57,302
because I wasn't working.

1392
01:18:57,332 --> 01:19:00,074
I guess everybody don't want to
hire me 'cause I'm an ex-con,

1393
01:19:00,102 --> 01:19:01,945
but they can't use that
excuse because of the law,

1394
01:19:01,970 --> 01:19:03,278
so they always say
I'm not qualified.

1395
01:19:03,305 --> 01:19:04,579
You're a former bank teller?

1396
01:19:04,606 --> 01:19:06,119
Yeah, for 8 years.

1397
01:19:06,141 --> 01:19:09,020
Specifically, what type of a
job would you like to have?

1398
01:19:09,044 --> 01:19:12,491
Well, anything that's got to do
with bookkeeping or anything

1399
01:19:12,514 --> 01:19:14,790
that's got to do with finance, but
a lot of people don't like you

1400
01:19:14,816 --> 01:19:19,595
handling money because you were
away, you know, for bank robbery.

1401
01:19:19,621 --> 01:19:23,364
I went to Chase
Manhattan when I first was out

1402
01:19:23,391 --> 01:19:24,927
at the halfway house,

1403
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:27,065
and I wanted to be
a security guard.

1404
01:19:27,095 --> 01:19:29,041
My reference was
"Dog Day Afternoon".

1405
01:19:29,064 --> 01:19:30,941
I says "I'm the guy from
"Dog Day Afternoon,"

1406
01:19:30,966 --> 01:19:35,176
"and if I'm guarding your bank,
nobody's going to rob the Dog's bank.

1407
01:19:35,203 --> 01:19:39,151
OK. also I could sign autographs for
people that open up new accounts."

1408
01:19:39,174 --> 01:19:42,246
So it took them 3 weeks to
finally get somebody to tell me

1409
01:19:42,277 --> 01:19:45,349
that I couldn't be
a security guard.

1410
01:19:45,380 --> 01:19:50,261
Just like I was gonna drive
Dog Day's Disco Limousine.

1411
01:19:50,285 --> 01:19:55,359
And in the limousine, you would watch
my movie and disco music would play,

1412
01:19:55,390 --> 01:19:58,564
but my parole guy refused
to let me get a license.

1413
01:19:58,593 --> 01:20:01,733
Also I had to be kept
under a psychiatric care,

1414
01:20:01,763 --> 01:20:05,575
and then I refused to see the
psychiatrist as part of my parole.

1415
01:20:05,600 --> 01:20:08,877
Because how can they claim
I wasn't crazy when I did it

1416
01:20:08,904 --> 01:20:12,044
and now that I'm out
on parole, now I'm crazy?

1417
01:20:12,073 --> 01:20:16,647
But the judge ruled that parole
is not a right, it's a privilege,

1418
01:20:16,678 --> 01:20:19,522
and if I want to be out,
I gotta see the psychiatrist.

1419
01:20:23,318 --> 01:20:27,733
His life was pretty much of a
mess when he got out of prison.

1420
01:20:27,756 --> 01:20:31,670
For him, prison was
really horrible.

1421
01:20:31,693 --> 01:20:36,164
Some people use prison to pull
their lives together.

1422
01:20:36,198 --> 01:20:42,581
John, I think it helped cement the
personality that he was becoming.

1423
01:20:42,604 --> 01:20:47,519
When the movie came out, that
became the essence of his life.

1424
01:20:47,542 --> 01:20:49,419
He then became The Dog,

1425
01:20:49,444 --> 01:20:54,223
and there was a real personality
change of a major degree.

1426
01:20:54,249 --> 01:21:01,133
So it was easy to slip into this
notoriety rather than settle down.

1427
01:21:02,891 --> 01:21:05,872
When Johnny got out
of prison, the week he got out,

1428
01:21:06,027 --> 01:21:08,029
he didn't come straight
home to my house.

1429
01:21:08,063 --> 01:21:11,033
He went to visit Ernie or
whoever else he went to visit,

1430
01:21:11,066 --> 01:21:14,138
and when he was good and ready, he came
to visit, to stay over that night.

1431
01:21:14,169 --> 01:21:16,706
And nothing happened.

1432
01:21:16,738 --> 01:21:20,015
And I was upset, because if you come out of
prison and you're not with me in 8 years,

1433
01:21:20,041 --> 01:21:22,248
why didn't you come to me
and the kids first?

1434
01:21:22,277 --> 01:21:26,316
And I would always say, "Well, he's gay, but
he'll get over it and he'll come back to me"...

1435
01:21:26,348 --> 01:21:30,387
always hoping for that white picket fence
that we always used to talk about.

1436
01:21:30,418 --> 01:21:32,455
<i>Mm-mmm.</i>

1437
01:21:35,523 --> 01:21:38,299
My name is John
Stanley Joseph Wojtowicz.

1438
01:21:38,326 --> 01:21:41,899
I'm the one they made the movie
about, "Dog Day Afternoon,"

1439
01:21:41,930 --> 01:21:43,773
that Al Pacino portrayed,

1440
01:21:43,798 --> 01:21:47,473
and I'm the husband of
Carmen Ann Wojtowicz,

1441
01:21:47,502 --> 01:21:49,539
who is the mother
of my two children.

1442
01:21:49,571 --> 01:21:53,951
I'm also the husband of George Heath, who
got me out of prison by cutting my time,

1443
01:21:53,975 --> 01:21:56,854
and I'm also the husband
of Ernest Aron,

1444
01:21:56,878 --> 01:22:00,519
the guy that I robbed the bank
for to get the sex change for.

1445
01:22:00,548 --> 01:22:03,023
New York gave John
a lot of respect.

1446
01:22:03,024 --> 01:22:04,861
People wanted to
get to know him,

1447
01:22:04,886 --> 01:22:07,196
to see what kind
of person he was.

1448
01:22:07,222 --> 01:22:10,499
So everyone wanted to
take him back to the bank,

1449
01:22:10,525 --> 01:22:13,438
to get a picture of him
in front of the bank,

1450
01:22:13,461 --> 01:22:15,998
and John would do anything
for a couple of dollars.

1451
01:22:19,401 --> 01:22:21,642
I remember when
he tipped everybody,

1452
01:22:21,670 --> 01:22:23,081
threw a lot of bills
out on the sidewalk.

1453
01:22:23,104 --> 01:22:24,515
Oh, that's for the pizza.

1454
01:22:24,539 --> 01:22:26,280
That's when they
brought the pizza.

1455
01:22:26,308 --> 01:22:27,787
How much did you pay
for the pizza?

1456
01:22:27,809 --> 01:22:29,117
A couple thousand dollars.

1457
01:22:29,144 --> 01:22:30,919
$2,000.

1458
01:22:30,946 --> 01:22:33,483
I find this
a very sad commentary...

1459
01:22:33,515 --> 01:22:34,721
Why?

1460
01:22:34,749 --> 01:22:39,459
On our civilization that
1, 2, 3, 4 technicians,

1461
01:22:39,487 --> 01:22:42,229
all of whom I assume
are reasonably paid,

1462
01:22:42,257 --> 01:22:45,898
should be sent down here
to interview somebody

1463
01:22:45,927 --> 01:22:49,170
who has become a celebrity
because of crime.

1464
01:22:49,197 --> 01:22:50,972
It's ridiculous!

1465
01:22:50,999 --> 01:22:53,912
I mean, young kids
of today see that,

1466
01:22:53,935 --> 01:22:56,973
and they're gonna want to rob banks
just for the attention that they get,

1467
01:22:57,005 --> 01:22:58,484
and it's not fair.

1468
01:22:58,506 --> 01:22:59,883
Have you ever talked to him?

1469
01:22:59,908 --> 01:23:01,319
No.

1470
01:23:01,343 --> 01:23:03,414
Are you scared of him now?

1471
01:23:03,445 --> 01:23:05,254
He's just standing over there.

1472
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:08,693
I still get the jitters just
remembering that whole night.

1473
01:23:08,717 --> 01:23:10,754
It was no laughing matter.

1474
01:23:10,785 --> 01:23:13,629
I mean, he acted crazy.

1475
01:23:13,655 --> 01:23:17,193
You didn't know which way he was gonna
go or what way he was gonna turn,

1476
01:23:17,225 --> 01:23:20,502
so you did what he said.

1477
01:23:20,528 --> 01:23:22,508
And now he's out
signing autographs.

1478
01:23:22,530 --> 01:23:24,009
Yeah.

1479
01:23:24,032 --> 01:23:26,672
Signing autographs
and becoming a big star.

1480
01:23:26,701 --> 01:23:31,013
Making money on an ordeal
he put a lot of people through.

1481
01:23:31,039 --> 01:23:34,509
One time, we went
to the actual bank,

1482
01:23:34,542 --> 01:23:37,546
and some of the people that
were involved with the bank

1483
01:23:37,579 --> 01:23:42,649
or, in fact, maybe one or two
of the hostages, approached us

1484
01:23:42,650 --> 01:23:47,099
because John's wearing this T-shirt
saying "I robbed this bank."

1485
01:23:47,122 --> 01:23:50,729
A lot of people in the
neighborhood didn't like the fact

1486
01:23:50,759 --> 01:23:57,176
that John was coming back to make
more money off the bank robbery.

1487
01:23:57,198 --> 01:23:59,474
So they ran us out
of the neighborhood.

1488
01:23:59,501 --> 01:24:01,708
Society has got a
right to condemn you

1489
01:24:01,736 --> 01:24:04,148
for expecting to make money

1490
01:24:04,172 --> 01:24:07,085
out of committing a crime
after you've been caught.

1491
01:24:07,108 --> 01:24:10,055
Yeah, but see, you're
forgetting one thing, right?

1492
01:24:10,078 --> 01:24:11,785
What about Hollywood?

1493
01:24:11,813 --> 01:24:14,487
Hollywood can make a movie...
namely Warner Bros...

1494
01:24:14,516 --> 01:24:16,996
make $50 million off of it,

1495
01:24:17,018 --> 01:24:21,626
get 6 Academy Award nominations
and win an Oscar for it.

1496
01:24:21,656 --> 01:24:23,567
They can make money
off of crime.

1497
01:24:23,591 --> 01:24:27,573
Why can a big company and a big
corporation make millions and millions?

1498
01:24:27,595 --> 01:24:30,576
They gave the hostages a hundred
dollars, couple hundred dollars each.

1499
01:24:30,598 --> 01:24:32,305
My wife Carmen got $50.

1500
01:24:32,333 --> 01:24:35,644
I got a couple of thousand, which I
used to get Ernie his operation.

1501
01:24:35,670 --> 01:24:37,377
I never got a nickel out of it.

1502
01:24:37,405 --> 01:24:39,078
Not yet anyway.

1503
01:24:39,107 --> 01:24:44,216
Warner Bros. recently paid Wojtowicz a
cool $100,000 as a final settlement.

1504
01:24:44,245 --> 01:24:47,488
Legal disputes have temporarily
blocked that money.

1505
01:24:47,515 --> 01:24:51,361
And to this day, I'm
still in court with my wife George

1506
01:24:51,386 --> 01:24:52,831
trying to get the money.

1507
01:24:54,989 --> 01:24:57,060
My name is
George Heath.

1508
01:24:57,092 --> 01:25:02,337
My relationship with John
Wojtowicz is that I am his lover.

1509
01:25:02,363 --> 01:25:03,899
I've also been known
as his wife.

1510
01:25:03,932 --> 01:25:05,411
He uses the term "wife."

1511
01:25:07,202 --> 01:25:08,943
Everybody
was out after money.

1512
01:25:08,970 --> 01:25:11,382
I'm the wife of John Wojtowicz.

1513
01:25:11,406 --> 01:25:14,751
My name is Carmen Ann Wojtowicz and
I have two children, Dawn and Sean.

1514
01:25:16,277 --> 01:25:18,883
Carmen got paid,
I got paid, John got paid...

1515
01:25:20,682 --> 01:25:25,529
And, of course, Liz was trying
to make money herself.

1516
01:25:27,622 --> 01:25:30,535
How much did the whole
sex change operation cost?

1517
01:25:30,558 --> 01:25:33,164
My last operation
was 2 1/2 weeks ago,

1518
01:25:33,194 --> 01:25:37,233
and it's now up to
about $54,000.

1519
01:25:37,265 --> 01:25:39,267
Liz was smart.

1520
01:25:39,300 --> 01:25:41,143
Now she's got a personal agent.

1521
01:25:41,169 --> 01:25:43,012
We had to pay him
to get this interview.

1522
01:25:43,037 --> 01:25:44,641
She's trying to write a book,

1523
01:25:44,672 --> 01:25:47,516
but then, so is almost
everyone else involved.

1524
01:25:47,542 --> 01:25:51,615
Liz and I... we didn't
have a relationship at that time.

1525
01:25:51,646 --> 01:25:56,720
I would see her in different clubs, and she
would tell me not to show her guy pictures.

1526
01:25:56,784 --> 01:25:58,627
I said, "You don't fucking
tell me what to do."

1527
01:25:58,653 --> 01:26:02,066
And then she told a lot of people
that different guys are the real Dog

1528
01:26:02,090 --> 01:26:04,366
so they'd get treated to
celebrity status, and I would

1529
01:26:04,392 --> 01:26:07,066
come there and spoil
it all for them

1530
01:26:07,095 --> 01:26:09,041
because I'm the real
motherfucker.

1531
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:16,639
We did a thing called "Let's
Talk Dirty" with Mark Stevens,

1532
01:26:16,671 --> 01:26:19,379
the big porno star on Channel J.

1533
01:26:19,407 --> 01:26:23,446
They're here at Studio 11 B,

1534
01:26:23,478 --> 01:26:27,551
and I'm going to be
talking to John Warzinski.

1535
01:26:27,582 --> 01:26:29,027
Did I say that right?

1536
01:26:29,050 --> 01:26:30,290
No, no, no.

1537
01:26:30,318 --> 01:26:31,490
I shouldn't...

1538
01:26:31,519 --> 01:26:32,862
Wojtowicz.

1539
01:26:32,887 --> 01:26:35,493
John Wojtowicz.
I'm sorry, John.

1540
01:26:35,523 --> 01:26:38,402
OK. I'm going to call
you Dog from now on.

1541
01:26:38,426 --> 01:26:40,872
OK now, with
the "Jeanne Parr" show,

1542
01:26:40,895 --> 01:26:43,068
Liz is telling me
how much she loves me

1543
01:26:43,097 --> 01:26:45,099
and she wants to get
back together with me,

1544
01:26:45,133 --> 01:26:48,444
but then when we did the
TV show with Mark Stevens,

1545
01:26:48,469 --> 01:26:51,473
she starts accusing me
of all kinds of stuff

1546
01:26:51,506 --> 01:26:53,577
and starts turning it around.

1547
01:26:53,608 --> 01:26:56,782
I talked to Liz a few weeks ago

1548
01:26:56,811 --> 01:27:02,489
about Dog robbing the bank
for Liz's sex change,

1549
01:27:02,517 --> 01:27:06,465
which I think is incredibly
amazing, right, don't you?

1550
01:27:06,487 --> 01:27:08,023
No, not really.

1551
01:27:08,056 --> 01:27:10,024
Well, why? Don't you think
it's incredible?

1552
01:27:10,058 --> 01:27:12,026
Because I don't think John
really robbed the bank for me.

1553
01:27:12,060 --> 01:27:13,471
I never have.

1554
01:27:13,494 --> 01:27:17,169
I really honestly believe
he was in debt to the mob

1555
01:27:17,198 --> 01:27:19,940
for unknown amount of
money for my wedding.

1556
01:27:19,968 --> 01:27:24,439
All you have to remember
is that I robbed the bank

1557
01:27:24,472 --> 01:27:25,951
to get Liz the sex change

1558
01:27:25,974 --> 01:27:28,648
even though I was against her
getting the sex change,

1559
01:27:28,676 --> 01:27:31,418
and that was the only
reason I robbed the bank.

1560
01:27:31,446 --> 01:27:33,187
Didn't you leave anything out?

1561
01:27:33,214 --> 01:27:35,694
Nope.

1562
01:27:35,717 --> 01:27:38,220
Give me a break.

1563
01:27:38,253 --> 01:27:42,133
I feel like I'm playing
ping-pong here.

1564
01:27:42,156 --> 01:27:43,863
I can't give you a break.

1565
01:27:43,891 --> 01:27:46,030
Never mind.
Go right to...

1566
01:27:46,060 --> 01:27:49,507
Oh! She's getting slick.

1567
01:27:49,530 --> 01:27:51,134
Come on, Liz, right?

1568
01:27:51,165 --> 01:27:52,678
It is incredible, isn't it?

1569
01:27:52,700 --> 01:27:58,343
If you had gotten caught,
what was the contingent plan?

1570
01:27:58,373 --> 01:28:00,375
What were you gonna
do when I came in

1571
01:28:00,408 --> 01:28:04,720
and kissed you in the
doorway of the bank?

1572
01:28:04,746 --> 01:28:08,558
The truth John.
Remember, we don't lie.

1573
01:28:08,583 --> 01:28:09,716
The truth, John.

1574
01:28:09,717 --> 01:28:11,094
Who? Who lies?

1575
01:28:11,119 --> 01:28:12,621
You do. Go ahead.

1576
01:28:12,654 --> 01:28:14,930
I very rarely lie.

1577
01:28:14,956 --> 01:28:19,496
OK, the truth is, if Liz wasn't
going on the plane with me

1578
01:28:19,527 --> 01:28:25,034
to get the sex change operation, I
would have blew her fucking ass away.

1579
01:28:25,066 --> 01:28:27,046
You would have blown her away?

1580
01:28:27,068 --> 01:28:30,447
See, Mark, you didn't know us
during that one-year period

1581
01:28:30,471 --> 01:28:33,509
between the time we met and
the time after we got married

1582
01:28:33,541 --> 01:28:35,384
that he robbed the bank.

1583
01:28:35,410 --> 01:28:38,186
I mean, it's all right to say
you're in love with somebody

1584
01:28:38,212 --> 01:28:39,623
and it's all fine and good.

1585
01:28:39,647 --> 01:28:42,321
But he also put me
through a whole year

1586
01:28:42,350 --> 01:28:44,626
of getting letters
every day that said,

1587
01:28:44,652 --> 01:28:47,826
"You have 28 days to live,"
"You have 26 days to live,"

1588
01:28:47,855 --> 01:28:50,768
"you have 15 days to live"
because I left him.

1589
01:28:50,792 --> 01:28:53,762
The thing that led me into
the mental institution,

1590
01:28:53,795 --> 01:28:57,800
which everybody talks about, is the
fact that I got these threatening notes

1591
01:28:57,832 --> 01:28:59,402
all the way down to number one,

1592
01:28:59,434 --> 01:29:02,404
and I figured since it was my birthday
and everything else was fine,

1593
01:29:02,437 --> 01:29:04,178
I said, "Why don't
I just kill myself?

1594
01:29:04,205 --> 01:29:06,310
It would end all this,"
and that's just what I did.

1595
01:29:06,311 --> 01:29:07,911
I tried to kill myself.

1596
01:29:07,942 --> 01:29:10,081
And you think I really wanted
a person to rob a bank?

1597
01:29:10,111 --> 01:29:11,590
I got the shaft.

1598
01:29:11,612 --> 01:29:14,058
I might have got the sex change,
but I got the royal shaft.

1599
01:29:14,082 --> 01:29:15,527
I can't enjoy it.

1600
01:29:15,550 --> 01:29:19,088
Dog was obsessional
with Liz, and Liz said,

1601
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:20,895
"You know, I don't want
to be with him,

1602
01:29:20,922 --> 01:29:23,732
"but he's there all the time,
he like, tracks me down.

1603
01:29:23,758 --> 01:29:25,135
I don't know what to do."

1604
01:29:25,159 --> 01:29:28,663
I mean, they had this link,
you know, this symbiotic link.

1605
01:29:28,696 --> 01:29:33,873
And there was nothing she could do to
release her from this mock marriage.

1606
01:29:33,901 --> 01:29:37,576
Well, I told her, I said, "Liz,
you wanted to get married."

1607
01:29:37,605 --> 01:29:40,586
"Oh, thank you,
thanks a lot."

1608
01:29:40,608 --> 01:29:47,753
Liz was talking about how the sex change really
wasn't what she should have done to herself

1609
01:29:47,782 --> 01:29:50,763
and how she thought
it would make her happy

1610
01:29:50,785 --> 01:29:52,560
and it didn't make her happy,

1611
01:29:52,587 --> 01:29:55,830
and it opened up a new series
of problems for her.

1612
01:29:55,857 --> 01:30:00,567
She started prostituting, and she
moved to Rochester eventually,

1613
01:30:00,595 --> 01:30:04,270
and she hustled there
until she got AIDS.

1614
01:30:04,298 --> 01:30:07,472
She would write to me,
and I says, "Are you ill?"

1615
01:30:07,502 --> 01:30:08,776
"No, I'm fine.

1616
01:30:08,803 --> 01:30:10,714
I've been diagnosed.
I'm fine."

1617
01:30:10,738 --> 01:30:13,014
And then, time just moved ahead

1618
01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:16,021
and she was dead, you
know, and that was it.

1619
01:30:22,417 --> 01:30:24,055
At that point,
it was a question

1620
01:30:24,085 --> 01:30:27,931
of how he was going
to live his life.

1621
01:30:27,955 --> 01:30:31,402
He settled into this pattern,
sleeping most of the day,

1622
01:30:31,426 --> 01:30:36,136
going out late, and going
down to West Street

1623
01:30:36,164 --> 01:30:38,576
where there were lots of
transsexuals

1624
01:30:38,599 --> 01:30:44,481
and regarded himself as a kind of
protector, watching out for them.

1625
01:30:44,505 --> 01:30:46,644
When crack
took over the Village,

1626
01:30:46,674 --> 01:30:49,712
that's when I started getting
people I never got before.

1627
01:30:49,744 --> 01:30:52,588
They would come to
my mother's house a lot.

1628
01:30:52,613 --> 01:30:54,422
Then they would eat
spaghetti dinner a lot.

1629
01:30:54,449 --> 01:30:59,398
They used to sleep over, because
most of them were street people.

1630
01:30:59,420 --> 01:31:00,990
Terry really didn't care.

1631
01:31:01,022 --> 01:31:05,493
She was like fairy
godmother to these guys.

1632
01:31:05,526 --> 01:31:12,501
I never got a clear-cut idea of
what the father was like.

1633
01:31:12,533 --> 01:31:16,276
Almost like he was the little
man that wasn't there.

1634
01:31:16,304 --> 01:31:21,253
He worked, he came home, he watched
television, he had dinner.

1635
01:31:21,275 --> 01:31:25,917
Whereas, the mother was a much
more vibrant force in John's life.

1636
01:31:25,947 --> 01:31:27,949
It was a mother/son combo,

1637
01:31:27,982 --> 01:31:30,519
and if you want to talk
about his great love,

1638
01:31:30,520 --> 01:31:33,965
that's the great love
of his life.

1639
01:31:33,988 --> 01:31:35,467
His mother.

1640
01:31:41,929 --> 01:31:43,135
Ma!

1641
01:31:43,164 --> 01:31:44,302
What?

1642
01:31:44,332 --> 01:31:45,970
Come here!

1643
01:31:48,002 --> 01:31:51,643
John and Terry were
like husband and wife.

1644
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:56,544
Terry would button up his coat,
help him with his clothes,

1645
01:31:56,577 --> 01:32:01,959
and when he wanted something,
he rang a bell.

1646
01:32:49,430 --> 01:32:52,343
I got a good memory.

1647
01:33:10,418 --> 01:33:13,490
OK.

1648
01:33:13,521 --> 01:33:16,798
Quiet on the set.

1649
01:33:16,824 --> 01:33:19,498
1, 2, 3,Action.

1650
01:33:21,329 --> 01:33:22,865
Good morning.

1651
01:33:22,897 --> 01:33:25,275
I'm "Dog Day Afternoon,"
the real one,

1652
01:33:25,299 --> 01:33:29,941
who Al Pacino portrayed in the
movie "Dog Day Afternoon."

1653
01:33:29,971 --> 01:33:31,644
He always wanted
to impress people.

1654
01:33:31,672 --> 01:33:34,949
He always wanted to look like
he was the main character,

1655
01:33:34,976 --> 01:33:38,446
but after all that he put me
through, he's my past.

1656
01:33:43,317 --> 01:33:45,888
That's all I can say.

1657
01:33:48,255 --> 01:33:50,496
Here's a guy who
probably had a hard life

1658
01:33:50,524 --> 01:33:53,004
but really led a twisted life.

1659
01:33:53,027 --> 01:33:56,941
I think for his own
sense of self-worth,

1660
01:33:56,964 --> 01:33:59,843
this is what he spun
in his own mind.

1661
01:33:59,867 --> 01:34:03,644
That here is someone,
you know, what I did, wow.

1662
01:34:03,671 --> 01:34:06,914
But you know, give us
a break, he robbed a bank.

1663
01:34:06,941 --> 01:34:08,579
He was a criminal...

1664
01:34:08,609 --> 01:34:11,749
a romantic criminal,
but he was a criminal.

1665
01:34:11,779 --> 01:34:13,850
He had to make it
a fantasy in his mind,

1666
01:34:13,881 --> 01:34:16,225
because what else
did he have in reality?

1667
01:34:16,250 --> 01:34:19,629
It's what you do
to survive mentally.

1668
01:34:19,654 --> 01:34:21,258
There.
There's your autograph.

1669
01:34:21,288 --> 01:34:23,495
Thank you.
Thank you very much.

1670
01:34:23,524 --> 01:34:25,470
Thank you.
Have a nice day.

1671
01:34:25,493 --> 01:34:27,131
I'm going to frame this.

1672
01:34:27,161 --> 01:34:30,005
And don't rob
no banks without me.

1673
01:34:30,031 --> 01:34:33,001
All right. Ha ha!

1674
01:34:33,034 --> 01:34:37,141
I think that John
wanted to be somebody,

1675
01:34:37,171 --> 01:34:42,519
but I don't think that he
really ever found himself.

1676
01:34:42,543 --> 01:34:43,851
Thank you very much.

1677
01:34:43,878 --> 01:34:45,357
Any time.

1678
01:34:45,379 --> 01:34:48,690
At the end, he may have
come to a confession with saying,

1679
01:34:48,716 --> 01:34:53,392
"Well, I'm sorry for this, I'm sorry
for that," but John was always John.

1680
01:34:53,421 --> 01:34:55,367
He would never change.

1681
01:34:55,389 --> 01:34:57,335
How are you, buddy?
How are you?

1682
01:34:57,358 --> 01:34:58,769
Not so good.

1683
01:34:58,793 --> 01:35:02,229
How you been?
How are you?

1684
01:35:02,263 --> 01:35:05,710
Not good, not good, not good.

1685
01:35:05,733 --> 01:35:08,646
I talk to Tony, but
he don't understand nothing.

1686
01:35:08,669 --> 01:35:10,808
He doesn't understand
what dying is.

1687
01:35:10,838 --> 01:35:13,546
He doesn't understand
about cancer.

1688
01:35:13,574 --> 01:35:16,054
That's why nuts have more fun.

1689
01:35:20,281 --> 01:35:22,852
Come on, you asshole.
Get up here.

1690
01:35:22,883 --> 01:35:26,660
Ha ha ha!

1691
01:35:26,687 --> 01:35:28,200
That's so funny.

1692
01:35:28,222 --> 01:35:31,999
I'll blow you,
if you come back.

1693
01:35:32,026 --> 01:35:33,505
OK. here he is.

1694
01:35:33,527 --> 01:35:35,131
Come on, you know you
want that blow job!

1695
01:35:35,162 --> 01:35:37,403
Yes, you do, you big devil.

1696
01:35:37,431 --> 01:35:38,967
See that, see that?

1697
01:35:38,999 --> 01:35:40,842
Bent over right in front of me.

1698
01:35:40,868 --> 01:35:43,712
Yeah, don't tell me
I ain't got it.

1699
01:35:43,738 --> 01:35:45,740
All right, let's go.

1700
01:35:45,773 --> 01:35:49,949
Life is too short.
So there is no "no."

1701
01:35:49,977 --> 01:35:52,423
Thank you...

1702
01:35:52,446 --> 01:35:55,552
If you want to
do something, do it.

1703
01:35:55,583 --> 01:35:59,019
Don't let anybody tell you, "No you
can't do this, you can't be that,

1704
01:35:59,053 --> 01:36:01,829
you're no good,
you're rotten."

1705
01:36:01,856 --> 01:36:04,894
Whatever they say to
you, fuck them.

1706
01:36:04,925 --> 01:36:09,635
Do what you want to do, because
tomorrow you could be dead.

1707
01:36:09,663 --> 01:36:13,645
So live every day as if it's your
last, and whoever don't like it

1708
01:36:13,667 --> 01:36:17,046
can go fuck themselves
and a rubber duck.

1709
01:37:28,542 --> 01:37:30,055
OK?

1710
01:37:48,028 --> 01:37:49,507
You understand?

1711
01:37:50,898 --> 01:37:52,878
♪ Strange ♪

1712
01:37:52,900 --> 01:37:57,007
♪ Life is strange ♪

1713
01:37:57,037 --> 01:37:59,745
♪ Life is strange ♪

1714
01:37:59,773 --> 01:38:05,951
♪ Oh, life is strange ♪

1715
01:38:05,980 --> 01:38:08,085
♪ Oh, God,
life is strange... ♪

1716
01:38:08,115 --> 01:38:10,527
A man doesn't
regret what he does.

1717
01:38:10,584 --> 01:38:16,557
And I used to tell everybody, "if I had a
dream the night before, and in that dream

1718
01:38:16,590 --> 01:38:20,504
"I saw everything that happened,
exactly how it happened,

1719
01:38:20,527 --> 01:38:22,598
"would I still
go out and do it?

1720
01:38:22,630 --> 01:38:24,632
You're damn right I would
still go out and do it."

1721
01:38:27,334 --> 01:38:29,314
♪ Strange ♪

1722
01:38:29,336 --> 01:38:33,113
♪ Life is strange ♪

1723
01:38:33,140 --> 01:38:37,088
♪ Life is strange ♪

1724
01:38:37,111 --> 01:38:39,455
♪ Life is strange ♪

1725
01:38:39,480 --> 01:38:44,520
♪ Oh, my life is strange ♪

1726
01:38:51,926 --> 01:38:53,496
Cut.

1727
01:39:26,427 --> 01:39:30,569
♪ Lately,
I been thinking ♪

1728
01:39:30,597 --> 01:39:33,544
♪ Just how much
I miss my lady ♪

1729
01:39:33,567 --> 01:39:38,573
♪ Amoreena's
in the corn field ♪

1730
01:39:38,605 --> 01:39:41,449
♪ Brightenin' the daybreak ♪

1731
01:39:41,475 --> 01:39:46,049
♪ Livin' like a lusty flower ♪

1732
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:49,027
♪ Runnin' through
the grass for hours ♪

1733
01:39:49,049 --> 01:39:52,223
♪ Rollin' through the hay ♪

1734
01:39:52,252 --> 01:39:56,701
♪ Whoa, like a puppy child ♪

1735
01:39:56,724 --> 01:40:01,002
♪ And when it rains,
the rain falls down ♪

1736
01:40:01,028 --> 01:40:04,009
♪ Washin' out the cattle town ♪

1737
01:40:04,031 --> 01:40:08,571
♪ And she's
far away somewhere ♪

1738
01:40:08,602 --> 01:40:11,515
♪ In her eiderdown ♪

1739
01:40:11,538 --> 01:40:14,985
♪ And she dreams
of crystal streams ♪

1740
01:40:15,009 --> 01:40:19,185
♪ Of days gone by
when we would lean ♪

1741
01:40:19,213 --> 01:40:26,825
♪ Laughing fit to burst
upon each other ♪

1742
01:40:26,854 --> 01:40:30,996
♪ And when it rains,
the rain falls down ♪

1743
01:40:31,025 --> 01:40:33,972
♪ Washin' out the cattle town ♪

1744
01:40:33,994 --> 01:40:38,465
♪ And she's
far away somewhere ♪

1745
01:40:38,499 --> 01:40:41,412
♪ In her eiderdown ♪

1746
01:40:41,435 --> 01:40:44,848
♪ And she dreams
of crystal streams ♪

1747
01:40:44,872 --> 01:40:49,150
♪ Of days gone by
when we would lean ♪

1748
01:40:49,176 --> 01:40:54,990
♪ Laughing fit to burst
upon each other, whoa ♪

1749
01:41:12,066 --> 01:41:16,537
♪ Lately,
I been thinking, whoa ♪

1750
01:41:16,570 --> 01:41:18,948
♪ Just how much
I miss my lady ♪

1751
01:41:18,972 --> 01:41:23,978
♪ Amoreena's
in the corn field, whoa ♪

1752
01:41:24,011 --> 01:41:26,787
♪ Brightenin' the daybreak ♪

1753
01:41:26,814 --> 01:41:31,251
♪ Livin' like a lusty flower ♪

1754
01:41:31,285 --> 01:41:33,959
♪ Runnin' through
the grass for hours ♪

1755
01:41:33,987 --> 01:41:38,299
♪ Rollin' through
the hay, whoa ♪

1756
01:41:38,325 --> 01:41:40,202
♪ Like a PUPPY <i>5</i>

1757
01:41:40,227 --> 01:41:43,504
♪ Like a puppy child ♪

1758
01:41:43,530 --> 01:41:44,975
<i>♪ Whoa Baby♪</i>