This film contains strong language
When I remember something...
... it's not just a kind of math machine in my head.
It is contaminated in terms of facts.
This mixes with desire, with fear.
Memory is a changeable thing.
Every Icelander knows about this case.
This is the biggest criminal case of the last century.
That's torture like that, Because I am a guilty person...
... and I have never really connected with actual memory
of all that happens.
When I grew up in Reykjavik, it was a small town community.
It feels almost like a family because everyone is related.
In '74, there might be 220,000 people.
Iceland is a village, and you still know most people.
MUSIC PLAYS
We don't have a lot of experience from the outside world.
That is a safe community.
There are only a few crimes.
It is a state of innocence, very.
And the authority of is something everyone believes -
and newspapers, they don't lie -
and that's what people have here.
They trust everything as seen.
It's time here in Iceland where there are many changes,
and I remember my parents Generations are quite nervous
of what is happening on Earth...
and I feel like with a lot of people
it really happens understanding of life.
Hippies do not respect the rules, they do not respect the law.
People will smoke and discuss politics,
and I am soaking everything they say is like a sponge.
At these parties where everyone passes the pipe, there he -
and I wonder, "Who is this man?"
And someone said, "That's Saevar Ciesielski."
Saevar has a strange appearance, most definitely.
He has this black hair and he has these Slavic eyes -
and other things about him is he so mysterious.
There is always this mythology around Ciesielski.
The story is he has this group thugs around him.
They come from damaged homes, they have left school early.
These children are in trouble from, basically, the day they are born.
LSD has entered the photo, and on one of these occasions,
this party is ongoing and we just drink Coke or something,
and then suddenly,
I start feeling like I am getting taller
until I realize I am really high on LSD.
So I started looking for corners, a place where I could hide...
... and then I stumbled on something, and it's Saevar,
and then he told me someone had to put LSD in my drink.
So we will only hang with each other through this.
We talk about our view of life, the deepest pain,
all who are there to get to know each other.
I feel like I've met one of them the most extraordinary human ever...
... and he feels the same way, you know.
After that night, there is nothing else how to get ahead but together.
Weather changes very fast here in Iceland.
Sometimes you have a sunny day in the morning,
but during the day you have thick snow.
Some people don't understand how fast the weather changes,
and get lost.
Gud retreated to disappear Saturday night, January 27...
... and on Tuesday, there is a big call for the rescue team to search.
There were around 200 people who saw, and we searched until dark.
At that time, no thoughts about this is a crime,
or something like that, because in days it happens very often
that people get lost in lava.
A pleasant summer. Good weather for weeks.
My family is very upset my relationship with Saevar,
because they have been told that he, you know,
a dangerous man Because he sells drugs...
... and so I'm out of me relationship with my family
because of him,
and he really held me.
I feel special to be considered OK by him.
Saevar has this desire to do some kind of crime
that he will escape
and leave authority just tear their hair
because they can't prove anything.
When I'm working for a telephone company,
I came up with this embezzlement which we finally did.
What we have to do is tweak phone
to make it sound like us long distance calling.
I called the office where I worked and I said, "I have a postal order,"
and it's processed,
and sent from there to the main the center of the post office...
... and then I go to the post office
and I told them that I was here to pick up postal orders.
I am very scared.
I feel like, "I'll be found out."
The amount we are darkening is just under one million krona...
... and I became very confident that they would never know.
"Boys, will they be upset!
" We got them! "
The whole series of events
very mysterious
which we immediately thought about,
"This is an investigation into the murder."
Witnesses remember that a man came to the cafe
and he was asked to use the telephone.
It's around the same time Geirfinnur gets his phone call.
RING PHONE
Hello?
HE SPEAKS IN ICELANDIC
Ja?
He is a good person, has no enemies.
It's not like he disappeared like that.
There are search teams everywhere.
Dogs, divers at the harbor, are all done.
An artist at Keflavik comes an idea to make clay sculptures
suspect, and the reaction is extraordinary in the whole community.
No bodies were found, so we were really on the empty end.
Very early,
I feel something happens here
it won't end well.
Ah... And apparently, doesn't end well.
Our daughter was born here in Reykjavik
on September 24, 1975.
Saevar was present at birth, and was very excited.
After he was born,
I have one focus in my life,
and it becomes the perfect mother for this child.
I will sacrifice anything -
and I'm really upset Saevar's way of life at that time.
I told him, "I don't want this anymore.
" I just want to have a normal life during the day, nothing is hidden. "
I am 20 years old, and I am very naive.
Saevar and his friends are known by the police. imprisoned for petty crime, theft.
They are rude.
This is a group of evil children.
When they come to arrest me,
they surround this big building as if they catch terrorists.
All I can do is call my sister.
So he came and took the baby.
I remember entering the car.
I catch a glimpse anywhere very scared...
and I remember trying to tell them
I can't be here for a long time, because the baby needs me.
They took me to this prison...
... and then I was locked in in this cell.
The next day, they talked to me
and explained that I was now leaving would be detained for 30 days
for alleged fraud.
I just broke down and can't handle that reality.
What about the baby?
And then they send me back to my cell
and then leave me there for six days and nights.
During interrogation about embezzlement,
they told me that Saevar was very clear
that I have fully on myself doing that,
and they tell me, "You need to realize that Saevar
" Is a human who is really rotten to the point.
"There is no redemption for him."
I was really surprised
Saevar will betray me that way,
but he betrayed me in terms of other girls,
so it's easier for me to trust them.
Finally, I decided to tell them everything,
not just embezzlement,
but something illegal I realized.
And it's a relief!
That is the end of an era and the beginning of life.
These people really helped me.
And then one of them said, "Oh by the way,
"One more thing we want to ask you.
" Do you know a man by the name Gudmundur Einarsson? "
And then he showed me a photo.
I said," Yes, I have seen this person.
"Years ago at my boyfriend's house, he held a school party.
" I remember him because he was really a good man "-
and that's it. "
" Yes. Yes. I don't remember ever seeing it after that. "
THEY SPEAK IN ICELANDIC
During that time, I thought it was Erla who started telling them
about things that have happened the previous year.
It's a long question.
It's hours -
and during the whole process they are getting closer
to talk about weekends when this kid disappears.
Somehow it makes me tell those I have nightmares.
The night's weather is crazy.
It will howl like a wolf.
In an old house like that, you feel the house is moving.
Then I hear a few whispers.
There are many people beyond my window...
... and these are rude people...
and I became aware that they whispered,
wonder whether I wake up or not.
I feel like I'm in this corner - I can't go anywhere...
... and then I wake up.
After all these questions,
chief investigator bends and he says,
"Something terrible happened that night in that apartment,
" you watched it,
"and you can't remember it because of the trauma that caused you.
" So what do we want to do now do you go back to your cell
"And you try as many as possible as you can remember,
"and then we will return and talk about it again."
I remember lying there thinking about that night.
My head is full of photos...
... and I wonder,
"That nightmare maybe something really happened?"
That I wake up...
..got from the bed...
... and see them.
I see Saevar and Kristjan and a third person I don't recognize,
bring something heavy.
I don't see what's on the sheet, but I'm sure it is the body.
I can't move.
I am cold, but at the same time I feel like sweating.
Later, Saevar took me by hand and put me to sleep.
I say I will go to deny everything.
Gudmundur disappeared in January '74,
and he made this confession December '75.
So it's been two years.
We look for the flat but there are there is not much evidence on the scene.
There is no DNA, nothing like that.
RING PHONE
Hello?
After I was released, they called me and they told me,
"We have questioned Saevar..."
Hm.
"... and we just want to tell you
" that his testimony is in line with you in detail. "
December 22, 1975. had called his friend Albert
and asked him to come in his father's car.
Half past eleven o'clock.
Kristjan called and he said, "They accused me of murder." Kristjan then met someone else, and something has happened.
I can't remember clearly what happened that night...
.. I'm under the influence of alcohol...
but everything I will tell you, I think I remember with certainty.
There is a fight in the apartment, and I'm sure I don't take part in it.
There are some contradictions,
I am sure between Kristjan and an anonymous man.
It was started by them cursing from each other, but ended up in a fight.
Then the man hit me and I thought I beat him, and he fell to the floor.
Then I see Saevar kick him in the head.
The next thing I remember is that Albert's car is at home.
Saevar, Kristjan, and Tryggvi approach the vehicle.
I see that all three are taken something that looks like a bag.
Saevar told me where to drive.
On the way back, Saevar and I discuss what is in the bag.
Saevar then clearly told me that it contained a corpse.
The police have told me that when they tried
to find out what has been done with the body,
they must cut everything into parts
and bring it in a plastic bag.
My mind really works,
and that feels to me like all this
has happened with me not at all aware,
and these people have become people butchers.
I imagine her when she holds a baby...
That smile is just acting, or...
Everything.
Everything becomes questionable.
The next thing that happened in early 1976.
The police are still investigating Saevar and Erla about Gudmundur.
They also mention Geirfinnur.
Police always stay related to me...
... and with my social situation where I am very isolated,
this is the only friend in the world that I have,
and they become are very important to me...
and at some point,
talk starts The loss of Geirfinnur...
... and he asks me point blank,
"Do you think that Saevar knows something
" about what happened to him? "
The thing about Geirfinnur is that it has never been found,
so it's suspicious from the start.
Then they start some rumors and some conspiracy theories.
There are all the rumors
that might exist connection
between the disappearances Geirfinnur
and people run certain discos.
There is always a lot of alcohol smuggled around it.
Rumors that some clubs
will get their alcohol from that source...
..so, maybe this person Geirfinnur is trapped in smuggling.
We drive from the city and head to Keflavik.
Saevar holds my hand all the time, it seems he doesn't want to let go.
The car stops near the sea.
Basically, Geirfinnur has been hired to take large plastic containers
moderate alcohol is smuggled into the country...
... and then there's a fight,
and he has died because of all that.
For Icelandic villages,
- You know, this is shocking.
That is the biggest story to be beaten by population for years.
Perception is that this is organized crime
tied to people in the highest places.
The gossip is like that Progressive Party
has been involved in all smuggling.
And the Progressive chairman Party is the Minister of Justice,
So this is a big scandal.
That's really the beginning...
I will call it public hysteria.
We have a killer gang among us, twice killer.
Where is the police?
How can this happen?
And of course in this case the community is close,
everyone talks about this.
What really happened in a society like this?
On the one hand, we lost our innocence, we lost our security -
and suddenly the big evil the world knocks on our door.
Then at the beginning of May '76, all of them suddenly all four men were released.
It turned out that the investigation did not produce anything.
Saevar and his gang, they write this story.
It takes a three-month police to find out this...
... all time is a total lie.
During the summer of 1976,
I am a detective with the same thing forced to investigate these two cases.
What I see is that the police are under tremendous pressure to solve these cases.
The atmosphere is tense, like panic.
The message is communicated
are all these people,
they are playing games, they don't work together.
The police are in a very, very bad situation.
Even after they confess kill Geirfinnur,
they still change their story about how he died...
... and the police have no body.
They only have statements from these people.
HE SPLITS AT ICELANDIC
Saevar put a gun in my hand and stood next to me.
I am very close to that man that I can see his face.
He seems to be aware of what happened to him,
and there is panic in his eyes.
Investigations have taken place for a long time.
It doesn't seem to happen very well.
The police did not experience it a case like that.
I mean, two murders.
The public demands
that the police will come with a solution.
Find guilty people.
The minister of justice is increasingly worried.
He is responsible for for all,
so he uses his influence, and immediately after that, this person Schutz appears.
He is the head of West Germany security police.
We think, "Well, this seems, You know, the real McCoy."
Karl Schutz formed a task force from seven police officers,
and there are three translators, and investigating judges -
and he is a difficult task teacher.
The focus is very much, "We have to find the body."
There are very large numbers search
for Gudmundur and Geirfinnur corpses.
Karl Schutz spends several months studying this case
and try to understand it...
... and he also interviewed suspects through an interpreter.
The focus is on who is the driver
who takes the gang to meet Geirfinnur.
They have to find someone who can drive a car,
and someone they all know,
and there I am.
Gudjon is different from the others.
He is older.
He is a man who is far more educated and he comes from a good background,
and he said he was there.
That is an acknowledgment used by to punish others.
The three of us fight with Geirfinnur
and that resulted in his death.
I don't remember his body put in a car,
but on the way back to Reykjavik,
I remember Saevar saying that I was the accomplice of murder.
We move the body to Reykjavik -
of course bring it in another car
so it will never be found.
Erla waits while we bring the body to Land Rover and put him behind.
We then drive all the way to Raudholar.
We dug a hole into the red gravel large enough to fit the body.
The state radio calls the Prime Minister to get his reaction.
He says the nightmare is over.
The public only wants our blood.
There is so much pressure on the authorities to punish us all and make us very good,
and nobody really doesn't believe all this.
Now defendants have the opportunity to present their case,
and they do it. What they say is that they are innocent.
Lack of evidence,
no body,
and the whole case doesn't make sense -
but even so draws their testimony,
people believe they have killed the two men, the end of the story.
I am found guilty of embezzlement, of course,
and false oaths, I have deliberately framing innocent people
for something they don't do.
In the end, the police arrested him the right person in both cases.
Always with that feeling
that he is sort of a Demonic criminal,
and I should be
this is submissive but people are terrible, too.
The image we provided
very similar to Charles Manson and his girlfriend.
Minister of Justice thank you Karl Schutz
"to free Iceland nation of nightmares."
Of course, the Minister of Justice is assumed, the case is resolved.
What he did not say - "This is starting from endless nightmares,
" and this nightmare will still be today. "
I don't think I have clear thoughts over the years through all this.
I feel like sinking a lot of confusion and a lot of guilt.
Your mind can take over, and your mind becomes a monster.
"What do I remember...
"... and what is missing? I don't remember? "
Memory is a changeable thing.
The day I leave,
what I can think of is, " My daughter is on the other side. " You know, to look right,
and you know, have the right thing to say...
... and he has this bouquet flowers, and...
... that is the day happiest ever.
When I am released, I am basically two things -
I provoke curiosity, and I am insulted...
... and people feel free to express it,
like spitting on my face.
The first time Saevar and I have ever talked about what happened...
.. it's really moments like that, like,
"What happened to us?"
You know, "What's that all?"
He experienced anger for years...
blame me for everything...
... and I passed it incredible guilt
because it has testified against him.
There are many years where we can't...
connected, and that's very much has to do with, you know...
Our relationship has been attacked by by such dark powers.
It's very difficult to become Saevar Ciesielski here in Iceland,
in this small community.
He somehow becomes evil
for, like, I don't know, 90% of Icelanders.
Only evil incarnation.
When Saevar left prison,
he meets a girl, and they live together,
and they have two children,
and they even moved to America.
We tried to move to Colorado, and just started a new one, you know,
family there, away from all this drama,
but he really can't let it go.
He wants to clear his name.
We decided to return to Iceland.
Then he starts...
... you know, really trying to fight this case.
I collect information documents,
trying to understand What has happened,
proof of the case itself.
I see the shortcomings.
They are very clear.
Usually, in murder cases,
You have a place where is committed,
You have a body, you have a motive.
They are not like that traditional evidence at all.
They only have statements made by the defendant himself.
My legal argument is quite strict...
... and the facts all support reopening this case.
I present all of this to the Supreme Court.
HAND PAPER
He had received a lot of support at that time.
People obviously don't believe
in the truth conclusions from the court.
I saw a lot of Saevar after he lost the battle.
He has placed all of his existence in this case,
and you know, where will he go from there?
I mean, in his world, there is no choice.
I always know something is really dark and bad
that happened to my father.
Many years and try to fight system,
and that, in the end, Just make it completely separate.
Many people know Saevar only from the streets.
He is a heavy drinker, a broken man.
He was a famous man at the time,
and people soften towards him.
He still has this charm.
He might be drunk and drugged,
but he always, or usually, keeps his charm.
But of course, is very, very sad.
He is really emotional in the end about all this,
and it's quite difficult to see that happen,
You know, in slow motion in front of you.
Everyone follows Saevar Travel...
... because he fought many battles to prove his innocence,
without results.
The funeral is held in the cathedral city center,
and it's really solid,
from street people to politicians.
When he dies, it hits the news.
Her relatives, Erla, and her children,
going forward and talking about this case , talking about the battle,
and encourage that this case should be reopened and re-investigated.
That's when I thought maybe I had to do something about it.
As a reporter, when you see this case,
You are warned that you might step into a black hole -
and after you check it, you can't stop.
I have filmed several interviews with people related to this case,
and then I decided to speak to Tryggvi's widow.
My mother called me and said that there was this woman from the news
came to interview him regarding my father's case,
and ask if I want come and be with them.
There is something in my mind that says that this can be useful,
because I don't want my father to be remembered as a murderer.
When we arrived, her daughter was there, Kristin,
and he said, "I have something You might be interested.
" I have my father's diary from when he was in prison. "
I just want him to see them,
and I don't think that will happen more meaning than that.
I just want him to see something from my father.
A piece of him.
When he shows me a diary, there is a long title.
It reads,
"This is a diary of innocent people
" Who is accused of being very serious things in a very serious case. "
" April 25, 1977 "So, now, I'm here continuously for 16 months
" and 11 days in custody,
"Including 14 months in isolation, really alone.
"I'll hold fast.
" I don't need to be afraid,
"Because I am innocent, and justice always wins in the end."
I realized at that point...
... we have something new.
We have something to report.
So, I think we should get it the opinion of a specialist.
Gisli Gudjonsson is a world leader expert on false confessions.
An Icelandic who has practiced in England for 40 years.
I was thinking, diary, they had to go to Gisli.
He is the person.
If anyone sees them, It must be...
... but I'm very nervous.
I am afraid that Gisli will say that...
... even though he wrote that he was innocent person, maybe he didn't.
I can't say it read a diary,
This man is innocent or not, because that is not for me to say -
but he stated his innocence and explained the reason,
and it is suggested that this is new material,
and I think the case must be reviewed.
The implication is possible the acknowledgment is unreliable.
I am very relieved.
That's the biggest spoon.
My story is broadcast, and it gets great attention -
and I think in the same week,
the ministry announces it investigation committee
will be established.
I decided to cancel the commission
to investigate the investigation, and the method used
under investigation,
and how this acknowledgment is obtained.
We pass thousands of pages.
Police report, handwritten notes from the police,
reports taken from prison guards.
It was quite clear when we saw into the prison diary
many records are missing.
Defendants do not have access to their lawyers,
and they are interrogated a lot, many times more often
than indicated by police reports.
Saevar, for example -
he has been questioned 180 times for 340 hours.
He is alone for 615 days.
Erla was interrogated 105 times.
Tryggvi is stored alone for the longest -
for a total of 655 days.
It becomes very clear to us many people everything becomes very wrong
under investigation.
Key findings from the commission
is that this recognition
everything is possible.
People have acknowledged for something they did not do.
I have never handled a case, anywhere in the world,
where there are so many interrogations,
and long interrogations like that.
This is amazing.
This is the only case I know where so many individuals
have their memories distorted so far.
Five out of six have what I call memory distrust syndrome.
That person starts thinking,
"Maybe something happened, and I don't remember it."
When I read the report,
I am really faced with how very unreliable memory.
"What do I remember..."
"... and what is missing I don't remember?
All of this starts with recognition...
... where Erla is below there is no pressure at all.
That's it who told them that they were involved
in the murder Gud back.
The police had explained
which often happens when people experience something
that is too heavy to handle,
they bury it somewhere, and they can't remember it...
and they say,
"We know how to help you remember it You witness something bad."
They form a gap in my mind...
... and then they go in there, and do it...
... and that is my horror -
to deal with that possibility
Saevar will be forced to cut humans.
Through all these exchanges, this story comes out.
Almost like a genie, you know, or something -
and for a long time, I asked myself, "Who made the story?"
Am I successful, or...? How is that, you know, happened?
At that time Erla was questioned...
... in the case of Gudmundur, he is a very vulnerable person.
Very likely that police officer
have, in their own minds, a scenario
about what has happened to Gudmundur Einarsson,
and over time,
Erla starts to believe that maybe Saevar and her friends
HAD is involved.
As soon as he starts expressing doubts in his own memory,
the police do it.
DOORBELL RINGS
Now, the police will come after me
about what happened to Geirfinnur.
In one version, Saevar hit it with a wooden log,
next time, he kicked it in the head,
and Kristjan have done it, and it's everywhere...
... and then they have an warrant for my arrest.
At that time, I felt very guilty...
... and I am very responsible destroy the lives of many people...
..that... it's not too much for me to accept it.
SUARA SHOTS
The police are confronted with with a big dilemma.
They have recognition, but they don't have substance.
There is nothing real that appears from the interrogation...
... and the country wants answers.
what happened to Geirfinnur Einarsson?
To come to Sidumuli Prison,
when the Gudmundur and Geirfinnur cases start...
it's another world.
Atmosphere in Sidumuli
very intense.
Attitude among the guards and the police
are these people are killers.
The more pressure, the faster they confess.
The guards hate Saevar.
They call him "rat."
One thing to destroy is to get rid of sleep.
There is light, day and night, 24 hours,
and at night,
they will knock on the wall where he is inside.
That is to keep him awake.
AIR RUN
Saevar is afraid of water.
They carry it, and sink it into the water...
... and say they will drown it if he doesn't confess.
The guards who do it, they enjoy it and are proud of it,
and laugh about it, from "drowning a mouse."
This is a rough hand investigation.
This is heavy.
Albert Klahn went berserk in detention after a few days.
Tryggvi Runar must be, after four nights without sleep,
anesthetized with an injection.
Kristjan Vidar tries to commit suicide twice.
It destroys that core - your ability to really say,
"I know that doesn't happen."
After that is damaged, you are very vulnerable.
"There's nothing but to wait.
" Waiting for the next interrogation, wonder what I will say.
"Inside the cell, I can't do anything but think.
" I grew up on the wall.
"I can't feel my body - I'm just the head."
There is an actual picture accepted by the court,
where Kristjan Vidar is sort of enforcing
what happened to Geirfinnur.
This is what happened - there is a photo,
exactly how it happened.
After you apply something, you show how you do it,
that might have a damaging effect
in the sense that it might strengthen that memory.
You start thinking it's really happening happens like that.
HE SPEAKS IN ICELANDIC
That's four times a day they carry pills that I have to drink,
and they all have one in common,
and that was before, they were calm.
I am not allowed to go out.
That's complete isolation.
Immediately, you shrink for this helpless baby.
Your mentality and you intelligence...
everything just shrinks,
and you are in this abstract world.
You know, I really just... have to die...
but this one...
one tie, with a baby...
is a thing that isn't allow me to do that.
When I think about it...
I can't imagine it.
I can't see his face...
and then I know I'm going crazy,
and I even wondered, "Have I ever had a baby?
" Is that also my imagination?
"Because I can swear I feel what I did...
" But no picture came. "
Criminal police told him that to get out,
he had to tell everything,
= = and therefore, he tells, informs, and notifies -
is too much.
This case is probably the first that the police feel pressure
from the press and from the public. have the fact that these people are lost, they...
recognition, if you like,
some of those people have been involved in killing them...
... but they always change stories about who did what.
HE SPEAKS IN GERMANY
Karl Schutz was brought in by the Minister of Justice
to harmonize recognition,
and make them credible in the case of a legal court.
He is very responsible, driving an investigation.
Everything focused on proves that they are guilty.
Karl Schutz teaches Icelandic detective
new ways to interrogate.
Basically, it's involved come to the suspect
from various directions.
They will jump from one time to another
to trick them reveal the truth.
Police suggest things -
"Could it be this way, could it be like that?"
and the person persuades himself maybe he is present,
and start believing it.
When Gudjon Skarphedinsson is captured,
statement...
... very important in closing the case.
That's the same...
..routine, again and again.
Do we bury it somewhere or throw it in the ocean?
Where is the car?
Who else is involved?
What are all these things about?
You are tired,
and you don't know if you dream or remember something.
I am really confused.
It comes like a clip from a movie into your mind.
In the end, you feel you have been there...
... that this really happened.
You wonder, "What else happened? I don't remember?"
You can't trust your own mind.
It's like someone pulling the carpet from the bottom,
and you stand in thin air,
and you don't know where the land is.
From the start, is considered guilty.
It seems that no one is considering that possibility
that these people might be innocent,
and they don't know What has happened
to Gudmundur and Geirfinnur.
After the confession is taken, once in the air,
it destroys everything.
My feeling is that the police are under a lot of pressure
that once they are on this trip, and get off the track...
... There is no return.
Rumors in Iceland
are all conspiracies by the police -
I told you it wasn't.
They are honest people trying to do their best,
and they do the right thing.
In the end, this is a prosecution system who must decide what to do
with the results from the police investigation.
I think we are learning from this case.
We are looking for a mirror.
When there is a miscarriage justice, life is destroyed.
It is very important that the truth appears,
and that we correct the justice that has been committed.
This is a witch hunt it is a lot of harm.
I remember saying to myself,
"How can I be like that trapped in this public hysteria?"
And it's taken out...
bad things to people, you know?
And that's what we did recover from.
It's still difficult for me to see the photos.
That's very painful to see this child,
because I am connected for what he experienced -
but it's still not me.
Always someone else.
And... it makes you so crazy, do you know?